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TV Shows You're Watching

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176 Re: TV Shows You're Watching on Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:12 pm

@Mott1 wrote:Is it me, Ian, or is Dawn actually pretty likeable in s7 of Buffy? Riley seemed to work in favour of Buffy and Spike's development as much as anything, but Marc Blucas acted well when required. S7 was all about redemption after everyone screwed up so badly in s6 so whilst Spike seems to have a bit too much material - and seemingly different personality from episode to episode - it works in the end, and Marsters nails pretty much every scene he's in. He did the same in Torchwood, a shame he didn't stay for Children Of Earth.

James Marsters is an amazing actor (great guy too. Lucky enough to meet him and he was probably the nicest guest alongside Ingrid Oliver, and Jacqueline Pearce. Peter Purves was also a great guy too. The thing about those 4 was that they weren't just polite. They really took their time to speak to you and asked you about your day.)

His performance ALWAYS made Spike enjoyable to watch whether he was a pansy, or a cool guy we all wanted to be.

However I respectfully disagree with Ian that they couldn't have done more with S4 Spike.

Again look at Crowley from Supernatural. Anybody here watch Supernatural? I seem to be the only one that ever mentions it on this board. Its official fandom are rabid SJWs like Claudia Boleyn (basically because it stars two men and they want to tear it down. That literally is the only reason they latched onto it.)

Obviously that puts a lot of people off. Also its definitely gone on too long, but there is a lot of excellent stuff in there. The first 5 seasons of Supernatural have to be included among the best fantasy series of all time IMO.

Anyway Crowley is basically season 4 Spike, the snarky, self serving Demon who only works with the heroes to save his own skin and flips between being their ally and enemy.

Spike in the season 2 finale reminds me a lot of Crowley in season 5 of Supernatural.

This article I think sums it up you should take time to read it. I didn't write this by the way in case you think this is self promotion. You all know my blog and this isn't it anyway.

Where Supernatural Went Right With Fergus (Crowley) Where Buffy Went Wrong With William (Spike)

Having said that thought since I do get quite negative with S6 and 7 of Buffy for once I'll list the things I love about them.

Tara getting more attention in S6. Very likable character, and a great actress (who is very underused) I liked her friendship with Buffy, and her death was shocking and heartbreaking.

Dark Willow, though controversial I thought was an excellent villain. Lets be honest Willow has always been a bit unstable. She nearly cursed Oz, tried to kill herself when he cheated on her, her Vampire self was one of the most evil and twisted Vampires, on a par with the likes of Angelus, Darla and Spike.

Also her torture and murder of Warren is a classic horror death on a par with Rhodes death in Day of the Dead (in fact I think it might surpass it.)

The Turok Han are a brilliant idea and really well realised too.

Nathan Fillion is a wonderful actor and its great to see him play one of the vilest villains in the entire show.

Unlike a lot of people I actually liked the resolution to the series as a whole. I didn't like it that Spike killed the uber Vampires as ultimately its Buffy's show, so its kind of like Tennant in New Who.

Still it was good the way Spike went from the lowest of the low, a would be rapist, to an ensouled champion, also having Buffy break the rules of the slayer line was the perfect end to the character. That's what she always did and now she's prevented any other young girl from going through it alone, and made the world a safer place. It was a perfect end to the character IMO.

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177 Re: TV Shows You're Watching on Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:14 pm

I think it's rather pushing it to suggest that Willow was "unstable" based on her being heartbroken after her boyfriend cheats on her! She didn't try to kill herself either, she was just lost in her emotions and not looking where she was going. Rather a melodramatic overstatement there! LOL

I thought DarkWillow was great, but it's made clear that the dark magic essentially takes her over at some point.

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178 Re: TV Shows You're Watching on Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:21 pm

@iank wrote:I think it's rather pushing it to suggest that Willow was "unstable" based on her being heartbroken after her boyfriend cheats on her! She didn't try to kill herself either, she was just lost in her emotions and not looking where she was going. Rather a melodramatic overstatement there! LOL  

I thought DarkWillow was great, but it's made clear that the dark magic essentially takes her over at some point.

We're all heartbroken at some point, but trying to curse him for all eternity is pretty severe (and hypocritical considering she did cheat on him earlier). Shows that with a push she will abuse her power. She just needed a bigger push which Tara's death was.

Remember she did make a conscious decision to absorb all of the dark magic to kill Warren. You can't just say its as soon as the magic took her over. Again not saying the little shit didn't have it coming, but you can see that Willow is prone to abusing her magic.

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179 Re: TV Shows You're Watching on Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:50 pm

I still think describing someone as "unstable" for having an emotional reaction to severe emotional upset is rather OTT! Ultimately she didn't do anything to Oz, and I doubt she would have to Warren had she been fully herself at that point (much though he did, indeed, have it coming.)

I love the show from start to finish, tbh. Season 6 is probably my least favourite but it's still decent. Up there with classic Who and X Files for me. Big Grin

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180 Re: TV Shows You're Watching on Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:12 am

True! One character development that leaves me a bit cold when I rewatch the show is Giles in s7: he's gone back to the humourless, procedural and stuffy s1 version of the character. He's a also a bit hypocritical, telling Buffy to behave like a General but constantly undermining or criticising her at the same time.


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181 Re: TV Shows You're Watching on Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:09 am

@Mott1 wrote:True! One character development that leaves me a bit cold when I rewatch the show is Giles in s7: he's gone back to the humourless, procedural and stuffy s1 version of the character. He's a also a bit hypocritical, telling Buffy to behave like a General but constantly undermining or criticising her at the same time.

Indeed plus Giles didn't do anything. The worst was the way that they put Faith in charge. That was pretty shitty to both Buffy and Faith. Faith didn't have the experience, and didn't want to be in charge either, and they were putting everything on her head!

And I would agree with Iank that Buffy is up there with Classic Who overall, and Blake's 7 and Star Trek TOS. They are all the best at what they set out to do. Buffy is the best Vampire fiction of all time, whilst Star Trek is the best series about the future of humanity, B7 is the best darker sci fi series, etc.

I'd say Buffy is also one of the two best genre series of its day (along with Xena.)

I'd say that it and Xena are also the two pillars in which pretty much all fantasy series for the next 20 years were built on.

All of the tropes and characteristics that originated in, or were at least pioneered in those two series can be found in the likes of Supernatural, Once Upon A Time, Charmed, Grimm, New Who, Torchwood, Nikita, Alias, Ghost Whisperer, Teen Wolf.

They've all copied from those two series, but ultimately none of them have ever quite had the impact, or been as special as those two still are today, never mind back then.

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182 Re: TV Shows You're Watching on Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:11 pm

Several episodes into series 5 and its worse than I remember. I always remember the Arthur story arc as being interesting, but on rewatch its REALLY boring. There are some good things like Amy Manson, but so far its not really going anywhere. Also the love story between Henry and that little girl is so boring. Makes me want to be sick into my own scorn.

Hope it improves.

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183 Re: TV Shows You're Watching on Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:26 pm

Series 1 of Blake's 7. How cool is Travis? Just finished Project Avalon and I have to say his plan to capture the Liberator and kill the crew by using a fake Avalon is actually quite clever.Terry Nation could write a well thought out script when he wanted to. I do wish they'd stop ending every episode with Travis vowing that he's going to get Blake eventually LOL


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184 Re: TV Shows You're Watching on Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:37 pm

Maxil wrote:Series 1 of Blake's 7. How cool is Travis? Just finished Project Avalon and I have to say his plan to capture the Liberator and kill the crew by using a fake Avalon is actually quite clever.Terry Nation could write a well thought out script when he wanted to. I do wish they'd stop ending every episode with Travis vowing that he's going to get Blake eventually LOL

Yeah I need to watch Blake's 7 again. Not sure if I should rewatch it, Ash vs Evil Dead, or Red Dwarf again once I'm done with OUAT?

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185 Re: TV Shows You're Watching on Sat Sep 08, 2018 12:22 am

Well just finished the first half of season 5. It picked up in the end. The Dark One lore was interesting, and the finale was excellent.

I didn't like the way they kept switching back and forth between Merida and Arthur's story arc. As much as I love Amy Manson, they didn't feel connected and it got annoying.

I wasn't sure about Rumple becoming the dark one again. It kind of feels like they undone all of his story arc. However having said that, its great to see Robert Carlyle back as a villain again, and he's more badass than ever. Plus this scene was awesome. Loved how smug he is and how pissed off Emma is.



I also love the way Hook can't beat him. Even when Hook is the dark one he gets his ass kicked, and even when Hook was giving this big perfect, noble sacrifice, Rumple still managed to take it away from him. You don't fuck with Robert Carlyle. Its as simple as that.

Well onto the Underworld story arc. I hated this the first time around, but maybe it will be better than I remembered. At least we get to see Peter Pan and Cruella again.

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186 Re: TV Shows You're Watching on Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:09 pm

Pressure Point.

Farewell Gan Sad Pressure Point has always been one of my favourite episodes and I even prefer it slightly to Star One. It's really quite tense once they enter the complex and the climax is really well done and tragic. I honestly have no problem with Brian Croucher as Travis. Both Grief and Croucher brought something unique to the character but only Grief seems to get any credit.




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187 Re: TV Shows You're Watching on Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:22 am

Well I have to say that season 5 was as shit as I remember.

The underworld story arc was TERRIBLE. I've not finished it yet, but its pretty shit so far.

Hades got off to a promising start as a villain, but his whole motivation is just to shag Zelena. YAWN. When will people learn that In love villains are fucking lame.

Also Zelena is starting to annoy me now, the way they have to keep stamping her into every goddamn story too. The actress is still brilliant as ever, but there isn't much you can do with the character TBH. Also I don't know, but their choices of mixing the characters together have been a bit off this year.

Camelot and Hades I don't think go well with the other characters. Seeing the Wicked Witch with King Arthur and Hades in Oz just doesn't feel right.

Also I haven't liked Rumple's story arc. Having him send Milah to hell was too far. He's kind of beyond redemption now.

Also they wasted Peter Pan and Cruella. Pan was only in 3 episodes, and two of those were tiny cameos'. Also neither really did anything either. Still Robbie Kay was as good as ever, as was the actress playing Cruella. I did at least enjoy watching some of the Pan stuff. Seeing him and Rumple kidnap Zelena was great.



Even after all this time, its still funny watching this little boy be introduced as Robert Carlyle's dad. LOL LOL LOL

I also liked watching Rumple give Pan a taste of his own medicine by abandoning him too.



The best bit was at the end however when he finally got Pan.

Pan needed a human heart to escape the underworld back to earth, and would only help Rumple escape if he stole one from Robin Hood. So Rumple tricked Pan by giving him a fake heart filled with water from hell that sends anyone who touches it to hell forever.



A fitting end for Pan. Destroyed by his son who ended up becoming worse than he ever was. Also this reinforces what I'm always saying that you don't fuck with Robert Carlyle. He sent his bitch ex wife, the only rival for his girlfriend's affections and his deadbeat, neglectful, abusive dad to hell in the space of about 3 episodes LOL

Still other than that series 5 has been utter shit for the most part. Series 6 better be an improvement.


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188 Re: TV Shows You're Watching on Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:19 pm

Re-watching Hannibal, which raises in my estimations each time I watch it - the show is a masterpiece.

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189 Re: TV Shows You're Watching on Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:10 pm

Trial

Brian Croucher steals the show in one of the Series 2's best offerings. Chris Boucher is definitely my favourite writer for the show.


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190 Re: TV Shows You're Watching on Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:04 pm

Finished season 5 of OUAT. Really little to recommend about that series tbh. Hades' masterplan was a bit better in the end as it wasn't just to shag the evil queen, but kind of a retread of Rumple. The guy who wants power more than the woman he loves, and so she kills/banishes him, except its nowhere near as well done.

Also there were some unbelievably stupid bits of writing. Fucking Cora, one of the single most evil villains in the entire series goes to heaven, whilst Dorothy's lovable old granny, and Rumple's ex wife, whose biggest sin was cheating on her husband go to hell? Its fucking moronic. How could the writers think we'd be happy with that resolution?

The season finale was also abysmal with the cheesy wishing well resolution. UGH such a shame it lost its way.

Hades was still kind of a bit lame. I still say he wasn't a good choice for the show.

I'd have much rather had the Horned King as a villain. He's the main badguy from The Black Cauldron. Though not regarded as one of Disney's best films, the Horned King was one of their best villains.

John Hurt gave an absolutely sensational performance, and the Horned King looked absolutely horrific. His plan is also to basically bring about a Zombie apocalypse.

Imagine how cool this shit would look in live action? I'd have so much preferred a story where he was the original Dark One, trying to summon his army of Cauldron born. It reminds me of Army of Darkness!

Would have been so much better than yet another villain who just wants to shag or love the main hero UGH.



Who says Disney villains aren't scary! That film alone shows you why John Hurt is such a legend. His voice is just so perfect. I love the bit where you see his red eyes bulging out of his skull as he shouts "KILL, KILL, KILL!"

Once Upon A Time really missed a trick in not using the Horned King.

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191 Re: TV Shows You're Watching on Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:47 pm

Just started Once Upon A Time's 6th season.

Its been reasonably enjoyable so far. The best episode was definitely the Nemo episode. You wouldn't think he'd be a good fit for their show as he is sci fi, but they actually did a decent job with his character. Good actor, interesting link with Hook, and it was nice the way it was a happy ending for once.

I also liked their take on Doctor Jekyll and Mister Hyde. Neither were sympathetic, but Jekyll was worse and used Hyde as the fall guy for his murders by always changing into him at the scene of the crime.

However I think this season suffers a bit from not doing anything new with the show. The Evil Queen was the badguy in the first season, so it seems a bit ridiculous that they'd be so threatened by her now. FFS Pan, Zelena, Hades, the Ice Queen could ALL kick the Evil Queen's ass, and they've beaten all of them by now.

Also Zelena once again is just jealous, and in the background. Shame cause Rebecca Mader is really good, but she's just a non entity in the show.

Also the Evil Queen once again has put Snow under a sleeping curse. Even Charming said "oh not again."

I'm fed up with Rumple flip flopping between good and evil all the time too. As fantastic as Robert Carlyle is even I am fucking sick of him now. TBH I wouldn't have brought him back after the Peter Pan arc. That was the perfect ending for him, and everything he's done since then hasn't really made sense. He's just gone back to being a bad guy because.

I think they should have brought him back and made him a good guy, but less powerful.

Also I really don't like the romance between the Evil Queen and Rumple. FFS that was NEVER an aspect of their relationship. TBH I used to think that he was her father! Considering how talented at magic she was and the fact that he you know shagged her mother!

That's now the mum and the two daughters he's had in that family. That's fucked up even by his standards.

Still I've enjoyed Lana Parilla's performance as the Evil Queen at least. She's gloriously OTT. Seriously she reaches Servalan levels of hamminess at times, If they do ever remake Blake's 7 (not saying they should) but if they do Lana Parilla is my top choice for Servalan. She'd be a worthy successor to the legendary Jacqueline Pearce.

As for the main heroes this year they've been really wasted. Emma's too mopey and useless and the Charmings might as well not be there. I can definitely see why they more or less called it a day after this season, with S7 being a ind of sequel.

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192 Re: TV Shows You're Watching on Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:34 pm

Maxil wrote:Pressure Point.

Farewell Gan Sad Pressure Point has always been one of my favourite episodes and I even prefer it slightly to Star One. It's really quite tense once they enter the complex and the climax is really well done and tragic. I honestly have no problem with Brian Croucher as Travis. Both Grief and Croucher brought something unique to the character but only Grief seems to get any credit.




Pressure Point is an absolute classic. Travis and Servalan are at their best.

I like the way Servalan actually shocks even Travis when she tortures her old friend to death. I also love the way that we find out she was always a vile human being, and actually didn't even get to the top because she was competent. She was actually deemed unfit for command, and only rose through the ranks with lies, blackmail, connections and sleeping around.

I also love how fanatical Travis is the way he actually hesitates to save both Servalan and his own life so he can kill Blake. Her reaction to his hesitation is brilliant too. She's really pissed!

Gan's death may seem by the book now in the age of Game of Thrones and The Walking Dead but it was a really brave thing to do at the time, to not only kill one of the main cast, but in such a pointless way too.

You're making me want to watch B7 again. Going to need a replacement for Once Upon A Time soon too.

I will say though Brian Crouchers best performance is Trial, the next episode. Love his speech.

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193 Re: TV Shows You're Watching on Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:36 pm

Well I have to say season 6 of Once is really picking up now. I loved the episode where we finally saw Rumple's mother. She's played by the amazing Jaime Murray, best known for her role in Hustle.



Poor Rumple being abandoned by everyone in his family.

Only thing I don't get about this scene is why did she shag Malcolm, his dad (who later became Peter Pan?) He was a deadbeat, lazy bum. How the fuck did he lumber Jaime Murray with super powers? I mean seriously!

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194 Re: TV Shows You're Watching on Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:01 am

The Rivals of Sherlock Holmes: The Horse of the Invisible. I have not been overly enamoured of this early 70s anthology series so far, but I really loved this one. The always awesome Donald Pleasance is a ghost-hunting detective brought into a case where a young woman is being terrorised by the family legend of a murderous, supernatural invisible horse. No, really. This one had a great atmosphere as well as the Don on his usual splendid form and I really enjoyed it. Rather disappointed there aren't more with him in it. He should have got his own series. Big Grin

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195 Re: TV Shows You're Watching on Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:10 pm

WOW series 6 has been amazing. Really picked up from the bland 5th series.

Just when I was getting bored of Rumple (despite Robert Carlyle's still excellent performance) they bring a whole new dimension to his and Bae's relationship.

The sacrifice he made for his son was heartbreaking in the Beawulf episode. It was also interesting to see the legendary Norse hero as a villain. They seem to do that a lot in Once with other examples of heroes being made into villains being Peter Pan, Dr Jekyll, King Arthur etc. We also have an evil version of Robin Hood too from the looks of things (though the original was still a good guy, the new alternate Robin seems to be shaping up to be a bad guy.)

Really looking forward to Jaime Murray as the black fairy. They've teased her so far, and she is obviously going to be the big bad of season 6, but so far we haven't seen anything. She seems to be even more evil than Peter Pan.

She would have made a pretty good Romana, or Rani. Can't decide which one I'd prefer to see her as?

I will say that though Emma has been a total non entity this year. Its a shame as whilst it is kind of like Blake's 7, with Rumple and Regina being the Avon's, but even then Blake was still a proper leading man in his own show.

I recon for the last 3 episodes Emma must have had a total of 4 minutes of screen time FFS. Also whilst I like Jennifer Morrison, she is really phoning it in this year. She looks bored shitless, though I'm not surprised given how little she has to do.

Hope they give her a good exit this year at least.

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196 Re: TV Shows You're Watching on Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:01 pm

Really getting into the Black Fairy arc now. I have to say that the Jaime Murray is absolutely amazing in the role. She's as good as the Fairy as Robbie Kay was as Peter Pan, and her character is far more evil than even he was.

Anjelica Huston as the Grand High Witch is the only woman more evil than this bitch.

Even Pan didn't stoop so low as to torture children! Glad that it cut off before we saw what she did to the boy, though according to Gideon she whipped this child for days non stop just to prove to Gideon that he was a coward for not saving her torture victim.



I really hope she gets an unbelievably nasty fate like Peter Pan.

You can kind of see why Rumple became a villain, with her and Pan and his parents.

Aside from the Black Fairy I also really liked Jaffar. The actor playing him was the George Harrison lookalike from the Brendan Frazer Mummy series.

He was brilliant. He was a more funny villain. His motive for destroying an entire kingdom was because they called him a bastard. Way to prove them wrong LOL.

I'd say he was kind of like Cruella in that he was good for a laugh, but the Black Fairy is definitely the best villain since Pan.

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197 Re: TV Shows You're Watching on Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:45 pm

Yesterday I caught the pilot for a new show on Nickelodeon called "Find Me In Paris", it's another one of those "performance art soap dramas" focusing on dancing (in this case ballet), but it has a sci-fi premise in that it focuses on a 19th century princess who travels forward in time through use of a trinket given to her by her boyfriend, and she has to find a way to fit in at this dance school while her boyfriend uncovers a bit of a mystery surrounding both her and his own family.

The dance stuff I really have no time, and it eats up quite a bit of the running time, but the time travel stuff is interesting and I like some of the timey whimey tricks the boyfriend (Henry) uses to contact her.

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198 Re: TV Shows You're Watching on Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:55 pm

Finished the black fairy origin episode. They finally explained why she was with Malcolm (Peter Pan). In all seriousness that was a pretty big plot hole (not just an excuse to go on about how sexy Jaime Murray is. She's supposed to be the queen of an evil universe, he's just a bum living in a poverty stricken town. How would they have even met?)

We found out that the black fairy was just a peasant woman, and that Malcolm wasn't always such a cunt. However she was told that her son (Rumple) would be the greatest hero of them all, but that he would die, so she tried to change his fate, first by becoming a fairy, and then by literally using magic to alter his destiny.

Its a brilliant irony that Rumple could have been a hero had it not been for his mother. She also didn't abandon him, as she ended up becoming the black fairy when she tried to kill someone to save Rumple, and the fairies then banished her.

Unfortunately however losing the love of his life just made Malcolm bitter towards his son.

I wasn't sure about this retcon. It was kind of a retread of Rumple's story arc. Yet another villain chooses power over their son (as the black fairy could have saved Rumple by removing her power.)

Also I don't like Malcolm being put on a dark path by the loss of his wife. It was better when he was just a selfish, childish bastard.

Still it was a good episode and Jaime Murray was as good as always. Onto the next episode and its a fucking musical. UGH I blame Xena for this. After the Xena musical lots of series started doing their own stupid musical episodes like the godawful Buffy one.

I can't believe they're doing this when they've only got a few episodes left. Already cringing.

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199 Re: TV Shows You're Watching on Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:36 pm

Well that musical episode was a bit better than I thought. I think it goes well with Once, more so than Buffy, because Once is a Disney fairytale show, so it already has that kind of cheesy and they all lived happily ever after vibe to it, so its not as bad a fit as Buffy.

The end song was nice, its just a shame that they couldn't get the likes of the Mad Hatter, Ruby, etc back for the big song and dance.

I was impressed that all of the cast did their own songs. The best singer was Rebecca Mader as Zelena. She was a great singer. Really hope Rebecca Mader goes far. She's incredibly talented all around.

Here judge for yourself what the best one is out of the Xena, Buffy, Once musicals.





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200 Re: TV Shows You're Watching on Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:56 pm

Well just finished Once Upon A Time. There is a 7th season but its set 30 years on, and is really more of a sequel, bonus series than anything else so that's me basically finished the main series.

(Series 7 isn't out on DVD for a few months so I won't be getting it for a while.)

Well overall series 6 was a good enough end to the show. Its only problems were that it retread some of the same old ground, but I enjoyed it much more than season 5, 2 and even 4. Its not quite on the level of 1 and 3 though.

Overall I'd say Once Upon A Time was a minor classic. Its not a Buffy, Xena, Red Dwarf, Lost in Space, Classic Who, Star Trek, Twilight Zone, IE a ground breaking show that really shakes up the genre, but its definitely above average, and certainly one of the best genre series of its generation.

Best things about the show would be.

1/ Robert Carylye's performance as Rumplestiltskin. Though they messed him around a bit in the later years, by having him flip flop between good and evil too often, Robert Caryle's performance was always exceptional. Both menacing, and at times quite pitiful. He's one of the greatest villains in any tv show, and really elevated the series as a whole.

2/ Lana Parilla as the Evil Queen. Every bit as hammy, captivating and complex as Rumplestiltskin. Lana brought so much into the role. There were times where you hated her, times where she was hilarious, and times were she was the noble hero you rooted for.

3/ Great cast overall. Though she was misused Jennifer Morrison was a good solid lead, and there were some really exceptional guest stars like the Mad Hatter, Pan, the Black Fairy and Cruella DeVil. Rebecca Mader was the other real stand out performance. I may not have been so keen on them making the Wicked Witch a sexy, lovestruck, jealous villain, but her performance was consistently excellent and often hilarious, like when she goes green with envy at a dying Regina taking attention away from her wedding day LOL. Fabulous singing voice too.

4/ Some really interesting and clever takes and twists on old classic characters. Making Cruella DeVill a horror movie villain, the Evil Queen a tragic anti hero, Snow White a badass, bandit, Rumplestiltskin a dark chess master, King Arthur a flawed, and ruthless king, Red Riding Hood, a tormented Werewolf, the Mad Hatter a loving, devoted father who builds magic hats to get home, and is driven mad by being separated from his daughter, Captain Hook a lovable Spike from Buffy style rogue, Dr Jekyll the real worst of the two, and best of all Peter Pan as an evil villain.

The best thing about a lot of these twists was that they were closer than you'd think to the originals. Peter Pan for instance was conceived as a villain, before being changed to a hero. Also this villainous version still sticks to the idea of never growing up, except that its in a really horrible nasty way, of a deadbeat, selfish, lazy work shy father, who hates his son for giving him a responsibility he didn't want.

5/ Stunning visuals. The look of each realm was always distinctive and really well realised from Wonderland to Neverland to the Enchanted forest.

My only gripes with the series would be.

Story arcs being a bit too repetitive. They used the villain giving up their child for power story arc about 4 times, the curse being cast about 5 times, and again Rumple switched from good to bad too many times.

Also too many characters dropped out. I don't blame the writers for this, as it was the actors being cast in something else in all cases, but still it was a real shame that we didn't see the likes of Ruby and the Mad Hatter, and Pinnochio more often.

Also not all of their takes on characters were as good. Despite Rebecca Maders excellent performance, the Wicked Witch was just a kind of jealous stalker of Rumple, which is a bit demeaning for one of the best fantasy villains of all time. Also the Sheriff of Nottingham, one of the greatest folklore villains of all time was a total joke in the series. He was meant to be, and the actor was fine, but still it was a shame. Also Maleficent didn't get too enough Maleficent type thngs. She was locked underground for years, then repented like that when she was freed.

Also NO HORNED KING! I can't believe they never used that villain.

Still overall I thoroughly enjoyed the series the second time round. I'd give it a 7/10 and would probably rewatch in a few years time.

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