Is Series 12 making Series 11 look good by comparison?

burrunjor wrote:

SomeCallMeEnglishGiraffe wrote:Does Chibnall not even realise how disrespectful he is being to Verity Lambert? Not to sound like an SJW but she was a woman, in a decade that didn't necessarily want women to create shows on their own, but she strived, and she created this show with Hartnell. She was the original, and was groundbreaking for the time. By Chinballs doing this retconning, he has now stolen the spotlight as the 'original creator', pushing Lambert underneath the bus. Chibnall, a typical white Male! That is just flat out disgusting!!!

Verity Lambert was a victim of internalised misogyny.

English Giraffe is fucking right, though.
They’re the privileged twats here. She had integrity, imagination, persistence and passion. Chibnall is a talentless cunt who had to leach off the talents of better people.

Doctor7 wrote:That bastard arsehole hate chibnall with a passion

Tbh I don't think BeKind could have written a worse episode. Sorry BeKind, you're out of a job now. There is nothing you could do that would be more absurd than what Chinballs himself has done to the brand.

Bernard Marx wrote:

burrunjor wrote:

SomeCallMeEnglishGiraffe wrote:Does Chibnall not even realise how disrespectful he is being to Verity Lambert? Not to sound like an SJW but she was a woman, in a decade that didn't necessarily want women to create shows on their own, but she strived, and she created this show with Hartnell. She was the original, and was groundbreaking for the time. By Chinballs doing this retconning, he has now stolen the spotlight as the 'original creator', pushing Lambert underneath the bus. Chibnall, a typical white Male! That is just flat out disgusting!!!

Verity Lambert was a victim of internalised misogyny.

English Giraffe is fucking right, though.
They’re the privileged twats here. She had integrity, imagination, persistence and passion. Chibnall is a talentless cunt who had to leach off the talents of better people.

If I could borrow a line from I Claudius, Chinball is an example of a tiny mind allied with limitless ambition and no shame being able to destroy something created by clever people.

Why why why?

Did anyone apart from Chibnall want or ask for this?

Luckily the general audience will shrug, forget and move on.

All we want is a damn good show with a fascinating main character.
Give us adventures, not preaching.
Give us drama, not nonsense.
Give us back The Doctor.

Bernard Marx wrote:

burrunjor wrote:
Verity Lambert was a victim of internalised misogyny.

English Giraffe is fucking right, though.
They’re the privileged twats here. She had integrity, imagination, persistence and passion. Chibnall is a talentless cunt who had to leach off the talents of better people.

That's such a brilliant summation!
I think I'll pinch it and use it as a slogan for one of my Redbubble shop designs.

To answer the question of the thread at long last: Yes, series 12 does indeed make series 11 look good by comparison. As awful as series 11 was, one can at least dismiss it out of hand due to how little connection it has to Doctor Who as a whole. Series 12 is just a miserable and downright painful exercise in how to dismantle the very essence, philosophy and core of the central character and the franchise as a whole.

Something else I’ve since considered is how the finale completely fucks up any story featuring the Time Lords and their condemnation of the Doctor. Why would they put him on trial in The War Games or season 23 if the division could have just wiped his memory and brainwashed him again anyway? Or were they just part of the division’s plan? If so, then any scenario where the Doctor rebels against the establishment, whether it be that of the Time Lords or any other variation, and fought for his autonomy, is now reduced to a mere mockery, as the character remained a puppet the entire time. And that’s not even getting started on how it completely undermines the role of Ian and Barbara as I already alluded to previously, and why the hell the First Doctor was a grumpy and elusive character in the first place. If the character was conditioned to be a hero from the outset, why is Hartnell’s Doctor willing to smash a caveman’s head in An Unearthly Child?

The Timeless Child story is narratively defective from both a logical and thematic perspective, and cannot be reconciled with so many aspects of the Doctor’s development and character. Why are people online claiming that it has no impact on the canon?

Because the NuPoo apologists will literally defend anything. They are zombies.

iank wrote:Because the NuPoo apologists will literally defend anything. They are zombies.

Indeed. I said this back in 2015 about the ultimate abomination Missy, and I'll say it now.

Missy, or Yaz,, or Clara, or Bill or Graham could pull the Doctors pants down and lick their genitals, and the New Who fans on Gallifrey Base would either say its great because DW is all about change or they could easily imagine Pertwee and Delgado doing that.

Bernard Marx wrote: Why would they put him on trial in The War Games or season 23 if the division could have just wiped his memory and brainwashed him again anyway?

Very good point.

I remember Mott1 also saying that the War Games doesn't make sense, as the Time Lords had programmed him to interfere from the start too.

The whole thing is a fucking mess.

Who knows who the Doctor is anymore? Would he have been a hero had it not been for the Time Lords? Who knows now.

burrunjor wrote:

Bernard Marx wrote: Why would they put him on trial in The War Games or season 23 if the division could have just wiped his memory and brainwashed him again anyway?

Very good point.

I remember Mott1 also saying that the War Games doesn't make sense, as the Time Lords had programmed him to interfere from the start too.

The whole thing is a fucking mess.

Who knows who the Doctor is anymore? Would he have been a hero had it not been for the Time Lords? Who knows now.

Yep. There are literally inconsistencies within inconsistencies. It’s so dysfunctional as an idea that it completely boggles the mind. It’s also all the more frustrating for me personally considering that The War Games is my all time favourite story.

I know I shouldn’t really care about this given how farcical NuWho already was, but I can’t help but be rather annoyed at how crap this all is.

burrunjor wrote:

iank wrote:Because the NuPoo apologists will literally defend anything. They are zombies.

Indeed. I said this back in 2015 about the ultimate abomination Missy, and I'll say it now.

Missy, or Yaz,, or Clara, or Bill or Graham could pull the Doctors pants down and  lick their genitals, and the New Who fans on Gallifrey Base would either say its great because DW is all about change or they could easily imagine Pertwee and Delgado doing that.

I am concluding that the whole purpose of New Who from day one was to get rid of the existing intelligent and critical - perhaps sometimes too critical, admittedly - fanbase and replace them with drooling, sycophantic zombie morons who will lap up anything, no matter how puerile or brain-dead.

Seems to have worked like a charm.