"Senior Ukip figures including Nigel Farage have expressed disquiet at the hard-right direction chosen for the party by its leader, Gerard Batten, and his open support for the jailed anti-Islam activist Tommy Robinson."
Posts : 2401 Join date : 2017-02-11 Age : 33 Location : Glasgow
Oh, *now* you believe that a large group of people shouldn't all be blamed for the actions of a small number of violent idiots
Yes but its funny that you do when its Tommy Robinson fans, and not when its Islam eh?
PS I have never personally said all Muslims are evil, and Tommy Robinson himself has also stressed as much too MANY times like in this video that I doubt you have ever watched.
Also its a bit stupid to compare Tommy Robinson fans to Islam.
There's no book written by Tommy Robinson that commands anyone who might admire him to live their life in a particular way. You don't view him as the prophet of the lord and the example that every human should live by.
Islam meanwhile DOES have a book that all Muslims are supposed to follow, and they have a man, Muhammad, that IS seen as the perfect example of humanity that everyone should emulate.
Yes not all Muslims choose to do that, but the religion says they should, so really its understandable that people might view Islam as evil give that both the Quran and Muhammed said that Jews are filth, that LGBT people should be killed, that all non Muslims be converted or killed and that women are inferior.
Apparently its racist to point these things out. I don't seem to recall this same attitude from people when it came to ripping on Christians or Scientologists.
There two religions being ridiculed and their followers openly mocked and called idiots. Yet when its Islam then oh no our fearless comedians suddenly have a lot of cultural and religious sensitivity. (PS not accusing South Park of being hypocrites or the guy who did the other video. They both have slagged Islam, I just meant in general, and I doubt anyone would have a problem with those two videos being shared the way they would with the ones about Islam.)
Oh, *now* you believe that a large group of people shouldn't all be blamed for the actions of a small number of violent idiots
Yes but its funny that you do when its Tommy Robinson fans, and not when its Islam eh?
I have never said that you are completely misrepresenting me.
PS I have never personally said all Muslims are evil, and Tommy Robinson himself has also stressed as much too MANY times like in this video that I doubt you have ever watched.
I have never said that all Tommy Robinson fans should be blamed for the actions of a few. You are right, I don't take 30 mins out of my day to watch the biased one sided and factually inaccurate video that fill posts with.
What I do think, however, is that there is enough obvious racism among Robinson and his supporters that anybody who finds themselves agreeing with him should ask themselves some hard questions
Posts : 2401 Join date : 2017-02-11 Age : 33 Location : Glasgow
Fluffy Mystical Bullshit wrote:
burrunjor wrote:
Oh, *now* you believe that a large group of people shouldn't all be blamed for the actions of a small number of violent idiots
Yes but its funny that you do when its Tommy Robinson fans, and not when its Islam eh?
I have never said that you are completely misrepresenting me.
PS I have never personally said all Muslims are evil, and Tommy Robinson himself has also stressed as much too MANY times like in this video that I doubt you have ever watched.
I have never said that all Tommy Robinson fans should be blamed for the actions of a few. You are right, I don't take 30 mins out of my day to watch the biased one sided and factually inaccurate video that fill posts with.
And in what way is it factually inaccurate? And the one I posted was an interview between Tommy and a devout Muslim man Imam Tahwidi who talk about how Islam can be reformed and work within British society and certain myths about Islam that are perpetuated and how there are certain ways to interpret the Quran but the Hadith are beyond redemption.
Of course you wouldn't know that because you haven't watched a second of it. And Sam Harris can hardly be called biased. He is a long standing critic of all religions, yet he has singled out Islam as the most dangerous.
And tell me what is wrong in the Islamic hatred of gays video?
It wasn't a small number. The police were overwhelmed and outnumbered in most of the video footage.
Those not throwing punches seemed eager to chant bullshit like 'you're not English any more', 'Scum!' and various other goading epithets towards the police.
Surely the myth of Tommy's army being some kind of classical liberal intellectual force has been well and truly exploded by now?
Given the evidence to the contrary, you'd have to be deliberately obtuse or have a rabid, irrational conspiratorial bent to stand by the position that he's some kind of political prisoner and that his supporters have nothing to do with racism.
Posts : 2401 Join date : 2017-02-11 Age : 33 Location : Glasgow
It wasn't a small number. The police were overwhelmed and outnumbered in most of the video footage.
Yeah not quite as many as the Muslims who hate gay people is it?
Surely the myth of Tommy's army being some kind of classical liberal intellectual force has been well and truly exploded by now?
Given the evidence to the contrary, you'd have to be deliberately obtuse or have a rabid, irrational conspiratorial bent to stand by the position that he's some kind of political prisoner and that his supporters have nothing to do with racism.
What race is Islam?
And funny how you and the media focus on this march, but not on these supporters of Tommy Robinson (who broke the same laws he supposedly did.)
burrunjor wrote:Yeah not quite as many as the Muslims who hate gay people is it?
Whataboutery. Both attitudes are disgusting, but one does not cancel out the other.
What race is Islam?
Why do you refer to Muslims as a single homogenous bloc in spite of its diverse composition races, sects, beliefs and practises?
I put it to you that the 'what race is Islam' question is a thin veil, a fig leaf to hide monolithic prejudice.
Given the demographics, it's highly disingenuous to state that race is not involved given the vast majority of Muslims are non-white or from other white ethic groups i.e. Bosniaks. This is also the case in the UK, where just 3% of Muslims define themselves as 'White British' and 8% as white overall.
This is a salient point given that white racists tend to define themselves in terms of their own identity in opposition to other racial groups. Being anti-muslim is an ideal way for them to skirt accusations of racism while directing their neolithic anger at a conglomerate comprised of other ethnic groups.
So the question should be: 'which races make up the vast majority of the Islamic diaspora in the UK?' The answer: the vast majority are of BME origin, which explains this sort of shit.
So yes it is racism. A multifarious racism under the banner of anti-Islamic sentiment.
You/Tommy/Whoever are being dishonest by asserting that your prejudice isn't also directed toward Arabs in conjunction by virtue of them being a racial group who predominantly follows that religion. So yes you're racializing it and being disingenuous
Muslims Aren’t A Race, So I Can’t Be Racist, Right? Wrong.
If Muslims are not a race, than which group is? Some people might immediately point to Black people, and say, “that is definitely a race. Look at their skin color.” But, to be exact, Black people are not a race either. Neither, for that matter, are White people.
Okay, now you might wonder about Jewish people? Certainly they are a race, right? Science proves they — like White and Blacks — are not a race either.
And what about Asians? Are they a race?
Nope. Asians are not a race.
The Indigenous People of America, a race?
Nope, not a race.
You see, there is no such thing as race or races, traditionally understood. Scientists long ago proved that race is not a biological reality but a myth, a socially constructed concept. Yet, despite the data, human beings have been programmed to associate specific things to certain “racial groups”; things like intelligence, work ethic, family values, and behavior.
Posts : 2401 Join date : 2017-02-11 Age : 33 Location : Glasgow
Whataboutery. Both attitudes are disgusting, but one does not cancel out the other.
I never said they did I was simply pointing out the soft bigotry of low expectations there is here, that all Tommy Robinson fans are drunken lauts, but whenever anyone criticises Islam then its NOTALLMUSLIMS!
And again actual statistics show that far more Muslims hate gay people than Tommy Robinson fans are racists.
Why do you refer to Muslims as a single homogenous bloc in spite of its diverse composition races, sects, beliefs and practises?
Okay I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I have NEVER once said that all Muslims think the same about everything.
Hence these quotes from me.
Yes not all Muslims choose to do that
Now again this does not mean that Muslims are all scumbags, but Tommy has NEVER argued that. He has always pointed out that he has known many great Muslims, and furthermore Tommy Robinson has given more support to actual Muslim reformers than many of his critics.
Hence why I post this video (and regularly praised and promoted the Imam in it!)
So that point to start with is bollocks. All I have ever done is argued that the ideology of Islam is backward, dangerous, and bigoted and thus it can and does inspire people to do bad things around the world, and whenever its allowed to govern the laws of any given land that's a very bad thing.
However I acknowledge that its very deeply rooted as a spiritual belief for many innocent people, hence why it can't just be banned, but needs reformed, limited and made toothless until it just becomes some mad thing like Christianity is in the west.
You/Tommy/Whoever are being dishonest by asserting that your prejudice isn't also directed toward Arabs in conjunction by virtue of them being a racial group who predominantly follows that religion. So yes you're racializing it and being disingenuous
You do know that Arabs are the same race as me right? Both are classed as caucasians! That's the most hilarious thing about this. Ignorant people assume that Islam is the black peoples religion, because Arabs are a little bit darker than us, but nothing could be further from the truth.
Islam is a white supremacist religion, founded by a white prophet, who kept black people as slaves, called them raisin heads and the image of the devil in Islam is a black guy!
Here
And again I never once said Arabs are predisposed to violence. I said that Islam is a violent ideology. So what if it originated with Arabs? By that logic are you not allowed to say Nazism was a bad ideology because it was created and based in Germany? Does that mean that you think all Germans are evil?
So the question should be: 'which races make up the vast majority of the Islamic diaspora in the UK?' The answer: the vast majority are of BME origin, which explains this sort of shit.
No this is more soft bigotry of low expectations.
Rather than be conditioned to be racist like a lot of SJWs claim, I think that its the opposite. I think that my generation and maybe the generation just before it who were raised by mostly former hippies and lefties were all conditioned to respect all other races and cultures no matter what.
Now obviously this was by and large a good thing as it meant that we were not prejudiced like previous generations, but sadly I think it went too far only in that we ended up collectively developing a soft bigotry of low expectations towards ethnic minorities and treated them as our children, rather than our equals which they obviously are (the fact that a lot of ethnic minorities follow Islam BTW does NOT mean I think they are predisposed towards violence. It was a fucking WHITE man that created Islam. We are all predisposed towards violence.)
Take a look at this parody about the medias reaction to a young white boy being abducted and tortured by a group of racist black people. They jump through such hoops to try and find a way for it to not be as bad as it actually was.
(This is a parody, but it has quotes and links to people from the media.)
This is the same attitude towards Muslims that we see from otherwise smart people like yourself, even though Arabs are caucasians and Islam was created by and worships a white guy, a lot of its followers are brown so people automatically not only assume they have to be the victims against evil white people. But they also automatically get more sensitive and uncomfortable to criticism of it.
Look at these two videos ripping the piss out of two different religions. Be honest with yourselfs, which one makes you feel instinctively uncomfortable.
Ask yourself why do you feel more uncomfortable about the one about Islam? And don't say "why don't you go after the Old Testament" because I have already said as much many times.
The old testament is sick (and clearly I enjoy watching it get slagged as seen by my knowledge of the above video.) However, its not as dangerous in the modern western world because it has been reformed, and its a more contradictory, loose religion overall.
Yet because we have all been raised with this soft bigotry of low expectations, we will always feel more uncomfortable at criticism of Islam, whilst laughing our arses off at harsh criticism of Christians, Mormons, Scientologists, and even Jews.
Having said all of that, yes there are obvious genuine racists who DO hate Muslims because they are brown, but Tommy Robinson isn't one of them, and furthermore when all the Tommy Robinson's are gone, then the people will turn to them.
Tommy Robinson inspired my EDL tattoo...but my new body art means so much more
Tommy Robinson, a man I once called a close friend, is now in jail. When I heard the news of his arrest, two thoughts occurred to me. Firstly, It could have been me. But secondly, although my life has gone in a very different direction and I totally reject the narrative of hate, I don’t blame people for it. Not even Tommy. I try to understand it. We live in a society where labels are put on people. All that does is create barriers and stop debate.
Former EDL member reveals far-right group preyed on people with genuine fears
A former organiser with the English Defence League has said far-right protest groups harm the victims of serious crimes by spreading hate and dividing communities.
As far as your racial classifications go, Caucasian is a broad phenotypic taxon from the 18th Century which often precludes the cultural, haplotypic, social and national racial constructions which contribute to the stratification of racial groups. It’s an incredibly disingenuous and narrow way of presenting race in order to adapt it to your flawed assertion that you cannot be racist towards Muslims. If fact it’s a basis for asserting that you cannot be racist towards anyone in the ‘Caucasoid’ group.
One only has to look to the Rawandan genocide and the ethnic construction of race in such an example to see the fallacious basis of using such limited categorisation. The Bahutu Manifesto is a good example of how genetically very similar people can be lead down a path to perceptual change based on ethnicity that is independent of outdated phenotypical classifications.
Transpose that ideological construction of race to the ‘white British’ perception of race and ethnicity, and it’s highly unlikely most white knuckle-draggers would consider Semitic Arabs to be part of some ‘Caucasian brotherhood’. They look at the ethnic, physical, cultural and national differences and ‘other’ them. I challenge you to attempt to explain to any of those neolithic thickos that they’re the same race as an Arab. Hell, if you told them they were the same as the French counterparts they’d probably pour a lager over you and kick you in the bollocks.
Scientifically, these broad classifications of race have been disproven by the genetic evidence, leading to many leading geneticists to declare that there is no such thing as race, only different admixtures of haplogroups based on tiny variations in the human genome. Given such knowledge, it’s fair to conclude that any ‘othering’ predicated on culture, appearance or place of origin is a shallow, yet deleterious social construction which we define as racism. Ignoring these factors and using 200 year old classifications as a fig leaf to avoid accusations of racism is tragically wrong.
As for your points about the ‘ideology of Islam’, that phrase in itself contradicts the caveats you cite from your own writings. The fact you treat Islam as a monolithic, unbendingly terroristic instruction manual for fucking up the world also means that - despite your assertions to the contrary - that you believe that the facility for radical behaviour lies within every adherent of the Koran. You go out of your way to avoid the sectarian differences, theological interpretations and the way the faith manifests itself within various nation states and the examples of secular co-existence within the Islamic diaspora. It’s almost as if you treat the ‘good’ Muslims as if they are some anomalous outcome of their mass indoctrination.
There’s also the split-personality code-switching I’ve noticed both Yaxley-Lennon and his supporters doing. If they’re talking to the media they cite ‘radical Islam’ and law-abiding Muslims. Yet when it comes to rallies and public speeches, they talk about the ideology and it’s people as a giant bloc, with some anomalous exceptions who they percieive as ‘victims’ of the religion. I can’t fail to see the spectre of that in your own postings.
Also, I’m afraid I don’t have much time to watch Youtube videos, and don’t really feel they’re a good way of ascertaining truth as they’re basically commentary rather than evidence of anything. I don’t really think that watching satirical cartoons from a specific political perspective is going to tell me anything factual or salient about this argument. They’re not exactly an intellectual gold standard.
70% is bollocks: "At Whitemoor prison in Cambridgeshire, 44 per cent of the 447 inmates are Muslim. It is the highest proportion in any British jail..."
It's also worth noting The % of Buddhists in the prison system is 3.5 times that of the general population. What is Tommy going to do about them? Fuck all I am guessing.
Anyway, "The Prison Officers' Association has put that down to thousands of lags becoming so-called "convenience Muslims" - converting to the religion to deliberately play the system."
According to Israel International News and a few others, Yaxley-Lennon is in Onley. That’s a Category C prison in Rugby. The 2013 HM Chief Inspector of Prisons report 70% of the prison population isn’t Muslim.
.Tommy is being bummed by a different person every day, on the direct order of the British Prime Minister. His ring piece will be in tatters by the time he gets out. Free Tommy now. #FreeTommy
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