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Revelation of the Daleks - Is the Doctor's lack of involvement a problem...

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Tanmann
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Tanmann

Tanmann
Dick Tater

Indrid Mercury wrote:Oh boy, the saga continues..... LOL

Not for long.

I'd rather not bore the forum with this, so I'll only indulge Rob for only a bit.

Hell, he might even cut and run again like the last time he lost the debate.

Rob Filth

Rob Filth

Sorry, I didn't understand any of that, all I heard was "Boo hoo hoo hoo!" because that nasty Mister Grade cancelled your favourite programme and it's all "Warriors Of The Deep" and Eric Sawards fault because the BBC played a clip of the Myrka to supplement Grades opinion on cancelling the show.

I've never known anyone to weep for so many decades.

http://www.thefuckingobvious.com

Tanmann

Tanmann
Dick Tater

Rob Filth wrote:Sorry, I didn't understand any of that, all I heard was "Boo hoo hoo hoo!" because that nasty Mister Grade cancelled your favourite programme and it's all "Warriors Of The Deep" and Eric Sawards fault because the BBC played a clip of the Myrka to supplement Grades opinion on cancelling the show.

I've never known anyone to weep for so many decades.

So you've been hounding me for two months just to tell me you don't understand any of my posts? Rolling Eyes

Tanmann

Tanmann
Dick Tater

Also I have to say I never particularly cared about the cancellation. It had been and gone by the time I became a fan, so I took the show having finished for granted.

Rob Filth

Rob Filth

Tanmann wrote:
Rob Filth wrote:Sorry, I didn't understand any of that, all I heard was "Boo hoo hoo hoo!" because that nasty Mister Grade cancelled your favourite programme and it's all "Warriors Of The Deep" and Eric Sawards fault because the BBC played a clip of the Myrka to supplement Grades opinion on cancelling the show.

I've never known anyone to weep for so many decades.

So you've been hounding me for two months just to tell me you don't understand any of my posts? Rolling Eyes

Oh, I understand them alright.

They all mostly consist of torturously convoluted long-winded essays which all add up to "boo hoo hoo - it's all Saward and JNT's fault!"

http://www.thefuckingobvious.com

Tanmann

Tanmann
Dick Tater

Rob Filth wrote:Oh, I understand them alright.

They all mostly consist of torturously convoluted long-winded essays which all add up to "boo hoo hoo - it's all Saward and JNT's fault!"

You just said you didn't understand them.

Keep your story straight, Rob.

stengos

stengos

Tanmann wrote:For me, I'd say the difference is that when Columbo arrived late, he usually very quickly established himself as the maverick and the hero of the piece that everyone who'd assumed he was a clueless johnny-come-lately was shown to have underestimated him.

At the height of his powers, the Doctor could come across as that kind of maverick. But in the 80's I think that aspect of him was severely undermined, and he only really came across as a maverick when a select few were writing him exceptionally well (Ben Aaronovitch, Terrance Dicks, Barbara Clegg). I've rarely felt Saward quite had that knack.

I can get behind the idea of a long stretch of showing the terrible things that can happen in the Doctor's absence, if it's in the service of showing him finally arrive, pumped up to right those wrongs. I always have the suspicion Saward wasn't interested in that though, even if the audience were.

Orcini is the one who comes across as the late arriving maverick in Revelation. The Doctor, I suppose you could say in passing Orcini his gun again, he does 'the right kind of a little', but those are moments that you kind of have to rewatch and look for rather than his heroism being center stage as a memorable takeaway.

I didn't have a problem with this approach. Seeing the Doctor carried along by the events of the story rather than being central to it all was a nice touch in my view. It made the Doctor appear vulnerable and not always in control, which was a story trait I liked, being a source of dramatic tension.

I think Androzani was similar. That was a story essentially about a rivalry between two supporting characters in the midst of a squabble, and the Doctor trying to get himself and Peri out of the way of all the cross fire - over complicated by the fact that one of said characters had a hard-on for the latter (Peri's reaction very well acted by Bryant imho). The story worked brilliantly for me. A welcome change from those tales where the universe / world is under threat of being blown up or the Doctor engineers the blowing up of a world.

Anyway. I think I am repeating myself and we are not going to agree. Thanks for the chat (seriously) and apologies for taking so long to reply.

Smile

Tanmann

Tanmann
Dick Tater

stengos wrote:Anyway. I think I am repeating myself and we are not going to agree. Thanks for the chat (seriously) and apologies for taking so long to reply.

Smile

No it's fine.

Maybe I'm not so keen on the approach (or perhaps it's fairer to say I became 'jaded' to it), but I *did* like Androzani.

Also there's no need to apologize for a late reply. Things did get a little derailed in the thread, which is probably partly my fault anyway. Smile

I probably didn't make it lucid enough in my opener, but I intended the thread to less sound like I was exercising serious gripes with Revelation (I do have a fondness for the story), and more just inviting members to get creative about ideas for how the story could've involved the Doctor more if it had been done differently.

It's something John Binns once did for Trial of a Time Lord. I thought it'd be fun to attempt it here.

Rob Filth

Rob Filth

Tanmann wrote:
Rob Filth wrote:Oh, I understand them alright.

They all mostly consist of torturously convoluted long-winded essays which all add up to "boo hoo hoo - it's all Saward and JNT's fault!"

You just said you didn't understand them.

Keep your story straight, Rob.
I don't understand the fact you have to obsessively repeat the same opinion fifty thousand times to permanently hammer home your anguished torment.

The opinion I understand as misplaced and uninformed as it is, that ain't the problem.

Absolutely EVERYTHING, every single fucking post, leads back to the same fucking thing and exactly the same fucking opinion.

Haven't you considered that sticking pins in your eyes might be a bit more constructive than obsessively agonising over a certain period of a television programme?



Last edited by Rob Filth on 9th March 2020, 6:51 am; edited 1 time in total

http://www.thefuckingobvious.com

Tanmann

Tanmann
Dick Tater

Rob Filth wrote:
Tanmann wrote:
Rob Filth wrote:Oh, I understand them alright.

They all mostly consist of torturously convoluted long-winded essays which all add up to "boo hoo hoo - it's all Saward and JNT's fault!"

You just said you didn't understand them.

Keep your story straight, Rob.
I don't understand the fact you have to obsessively repeat the same opinion fifty thousand times to permanently hammer home your anguished torment

Maybe I'm just not going to give in to fan ideologues or bullies like you who demand the era be liked and accepted without question, and think you can intimidate those opinions I have out of me.

Absolutely EVERYTHING, every single fucking post, leads back to the same fucking thing and exactly the same fucking opinion.

This thread didn't.

Until you started belly-aching and trolling in it.

Rob Filth

Rob Filth

Tanmann wrote:Maybe I'm just not going to give in to fan ideologues or bullies like you who demand the era be liked and accepted without question, and think you can intimidate those opinions I have out of me.

Absolutely EVERYTHING, every single fucking post, leads back to the same fucking thing and exactly the same fucking opinion.

This thread didn't.

Until you started belly-aching and trolling in it.
The clue is in the OP title, idiot.

EVERY fucking thing you post leads back to bellyaching about Eric Saward. 

I couldn't give a shit that you don't like his stories, I don't like Fatheads crap hack but I don't repeatedly obsess about it like a complete dullard.

You're like a cracked record playing the same fucking tune year after year, decade after decade.

I imagine on your death's bed you'll still be throwing darts at your framed and signed photo of Eric Saward.

http://www.thefuckingobvious.com

Tanmann

Tanmann
Dick Tater

Rob Filth wrote:The clue is in the OP title, idiot.

It's not my fault you can't read beyond the title.

EVERY fucking thing you post leads back to bellyaching about Eric Saward. 

More like every fucking thing I post leads back to you trolling it.

I couldn't give a shit that you don't like his stories

It's too late to play the false moderate, Rob.

You've already shown your ideological zealotry to the 'message' of Warriors, and that you're bizarrely quick to anger when it's questioned or renounced by me.

Rob Filth

Rob Filth

Tanmann wrote:
Rob Filth wrote:The clue is in the OP title, idiot.

It's not my fault you can't read beyond the title.

EVERY fucking thing you post leads back to bellyaching about Eric Saward. 

More like every fucking thing I post leads back to you trolling it.
Quit banging on about the same fucking thing then.

YES, we get that you don't like Eric Sawards writing nor understand the moral ambiguities or dilemmas in "Warriors of The Deep", but why post 50 thousand threads which ALWAYS ALL lead back to the same fucking opinion? 

It's fucking boring and makes you look like the ultimate dullard of the century.

The endless agonising over one fucking story and one writer is utterly tragic.

Small wonder Who fans have reputations of being a bit sad with one-note obsessives such as yourself displayed as specimens of example.

http://www.thefuckingobvious.com

Tanmann

Tanmann
Dick Tater

Rob Filth wrote:Quit banging on about the same fucking thing then.

YES, we get that you don't like Eric Sawards writing nor understand the moral ambiguities or dilemmas in "Warriors of The Deep"

A) I was talking about a completely different story in this thread, and whilst deficiencies in Saward's writing in other stories was inevitably going to be a tangent occasionally, the focus was meant to be on how Revelation of the Daleks could've been done differently.

It was meant to be a fun thread about getting creative, that you just couldn't help wanting to spoil.

B) No, I don't like Saward's stewardship of the show, or Warriors. And I don't like it because it was fan-aimed in a way that often spoke beyond the moderates of the fanbase to the fucking nutters (is it a coincidence Kaled Hygiene was a fan of Warriors too?).

If I'm a fan but I don't agree with that suicide cult madness, but I'm expected to by the rest of fandom because that's suddenly what being a fan of the Doctor means, then that's a problem.

That's why I've always felt the need to emphasize I'm a fan, but not one who agrees with that madness, and I never will be.

I'd rather be considered a crank who despises the story than a crank who agrees with it.

The endless agonising over one fucking story and one writer is utterly tragic.

Yeah it's one story.

Despite the fact it also retroactively taints two Pertwee stories and everything in-between.

Furthermore, the story was specifically made as a po-faced statement of why the show, its history, continuity, morality and politics were still relevant and important in 1984, only to thoroughly embarrass its own case on every single point.

Frankly it's a story that makes me think I should never introduce anyone else to the show if there's a chance they see that too and think that's what the show's about.

It was also ground zero for every other example of suicidal pacifist/appeasement lunacy in the franchise that followed. Whether we're talking the NA novel Blood Heat, the audio story Davros, the moment in Timewryn: Geneys where McCoy tells Ace not to dare judge or protest should some  warlord try to molest her, or a fair few moments of the same in RTD and Chibnall's writing.

Small wonder Who fans have reputations of being a bit sad with one-note obsessives such as yourself displayed as specimens of example.

You do realize the very essence and ethos of Warriors of the Deep is actually *about* the Doctor himself agonising and holding a vindictive, undying grudge over stories past.

You can't really call it 'sad' for me to bash the story, whilst at the same time championing a story that positively venerates that petty, blinkered, griping behaviour.

Rob Filth

Rob Filth

"Oh boo hoo hoo, I can't show any of my friends the series just in case they see THAT story!"

Do you realise just how pathetic and cringey that sounds?

And there's nothing more suicide-cultish than those who endorse WMD which will extinguish ALL life on the planet, there's little "moderate" about desiring ownership of such devices of atrocity. In fact, it is as fucking "extremist" as you can possibly get, not to mention downright selfish.

"Oh boo hoo I'm going to die therefore every other living thing has to die as well". Such weaponry only satisfies the mentality of a complete selfish immature fucking cunt. 

And the thread wasn't put up merely as "a fun thread" as you claim either, so drop the disingenuous innocent-act, you're not fooling anyone. It was to return to your lifelong favourite obsessive subject of lamenting Sawards input on the show and returning back to obsessively slagging off "Warriors".

Fucking get over it and move on. It happened.

Jesus Christ, life is too short.

Go out, take a walk, maybe meet and communicate with some other living breathing people and rediscover life instead of obsessing for decades over one man and one story.

http://www.thefuckingobvious.com

Tanmann

Tanmann
Dick Tater

Rob Filth wrote:"Oh boo hoo hoo, I can't show any of my friends the series just in case they see THAT story!"

Do you realise just how pathetic and cringey that sounds?

No more pathetic than you claiming the only reason they wouldn't like the story is because they're 'Grade-apologists' or have been brainwashed by Rupert Murdoch.

Rob Filth wrote:And there's nothing more suicide-cultish than those who endorse WMD which will extinguish ALL life on the planet, there's little "moderate" about desiring ownership of such devices of atrocity. In fact, it is as fucking "extremist" as you can possibly get, not to mention downright selfish.

Just like the Silurians endorsed them.

And the thread wasn't put up merely as "a fun thread" as you claim either, so drop the disingenuous innocent-act, you're not fooling anyone.

No, stop pretending to be a mind-reader and drop *your* disingenuous excuses for trolling and ruining what was meant to be a fun thread.

Go out, take a walk, maybe meet and communicate with some other living breathing people and rediscover life

Rob, you've only ever been interested in trying to make my life miserable.

Drop the phony concern-trolling

Rob Filth

Rob Filth

Tanmann wrote:
Rob Filth wrote:"Oh boo hoo hoo, I can't show any of my friends the series just in case they see THAT story!"

Do you realise just how pathetic and cringey that sounds?

No more pathetic than you claiming the only reason they wouldn't like the story is because they're 'Grade-apologists' or have been brainwashed by Rupert Murdoch.
You ARE a Grade apologist however, you find faults in the programme which weren't there to back up the confirmation bias of a pompous twat controller who just didn't like sci-fi on the BBC.

Tanmann wrote:
Rob Filth wrote:And there's nothing more suicide-cultish than those who endorse WMD which will extinguish ALL life on the planet, there's little "moderate" about desiring ownership of such devices of atrocity. In fact, it is as fucking "extremist" as you can possibly get, not to mention downright selfish.

Just like the Silurians endorsed them.
Wrong, they endorsed the humans wiping themselves out with their own WMD, just as they were stupidly planning to do before the Silurians even fucking got on the scene. The Silurians didn't manufacture the means of the humans own extinction, the humans stupidly did.

Tanmann wrote:
Rob Filth wrote:And the thread wasn't put up merely as "a fun thread" as you claim either, so drop the disingenuous innocent-act, you're not fooling anyone
No, stop pretending to be a mind-reader and drop *your* disingenuous excuses for trolling and ruining what was meant to be a fun thread.

No, it wasn't intended as a "fun-thread", it was intended as a thread for you to bang on about the show being ruined by Eric Saward again just like every other fucking thread you start or contribute towards is.

You can't help yourself, it always veers back to the same fucking thing like a stuck record.

There's more than a dozen other examples on this forum.
Tanmann wrote:
Rob Filth wrote:Go out, take a walk, maybe meet and communicate with some other living breathing people and rediscover life

Rob, you've only ever been interested in trying to make my life miserable.

Drop the phony concern-trolling

I've absolutely no need whatsoever to make your life miserable even if I laughingly had the ability to do so because it already IS miserable because of Eric Saward, as you never tire of agonisingly telling us every 5 minutes in your long-winded convoluted navel-gazing soul-searching posts.

http://www.thefuckingobvious.com

Tanmann

Tanmann
Dick Tater

Rob Filth wrote:You ARE a Grade apologist however, you find faults in the programme which weren't there to back up the confirmation bias of a pompous twat controller who just didn't like sci-fi on the BBC.

What a load of tribalistic bullshit.....

Wrong, they endorsed the humans wiping themselves out with their own WMD

In other words they endorsed using WMDs.

No, it wasn't intended as a "fun-thread", it was intended as a thread for you to bang on about the show being ruined by Eric Saward again

You REALLY hate this thread don't you?

And now you're just desperate to say anything to justify ruining it.

You can't help yourself

Neither can you, though....

Rob Filth

Rob Filth

Sorry, I'm afraid I didn't get any of that, all I heard was "blah dee blah dee blah"

I'm afraid you'll have to elaborate.

http://www.thefuckingobvious.com

Tanmann

Tanmann
Dick Tater

Dodging the fact you lost the argument then?

Rob Filth

Rob Filth

Tanmann wrote:Dodging the fact you lost the argument then?
I wasn't arguing, I was observing.

Observing what a complete and utter dullard bore you are.

http://www.thefuckingobvious.com

Tanmann

Tanmann
Dick Tater

Rob Filth wrote:
Tanmann wrote:Dodging the fact you lost the argument then?
I wasn't arguing, I was observing.

Observing what a complete and utter dullard bore you are.

No you were arguing.

And evidently you don't want to admit you didn't win.

Rob Filth

Rob Filth

Tanmann wrote:No you were arguing.

And evidently you don't want to admit you didn't win.
There's nothing to win when you aren't arguing.

I was merely observing that you are a tiresome dullard who agonisingly labours the same point in every single thread.

That's a fact, not an argument, nor a debate.

http://www.thefuckingobvious.com

Tanmann

Tanmann
Dick Tater

Rob Filth wrote:I was merely observing that you are a tiresome dullard who agonisingly labours the same point in every single thread.

You weren't 'merely observing' anything.

You actually felt the need to throw several tantrums in my thread in the hope of getting noticed by me.

Besides, if I was such a bore, why would you feel the need to still bitch about me for ten years?

Most people who bore me, I just avoid and don't dwell on. I don't go to war with them.

REDACTED

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Tanmann wrote:
Rob Filth wrote:I was merely observing that you are a tiresome dullard who agonisingly labours the same point in every single thread.

You weren't 'merely observing' anything.

You actually felt the need to throw several tantrums in my thread in the hope of getting noticed by me.

Besides, if I was such a bore, why would you feel the need to still bitch about me for ten years?

Most people who bore me, I just avoid and don't dwell on. I don't go to war with them.


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