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The Invasion of Time

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Tanmann
stengos
Pepsi Maxil
Bernard Marx
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1The Invasion of Time Empty The Invasion of Time 15th February 2020, 7:23 pm

Bernard Marx

Bernard Marx

What is the forum’s stance on the finale of season 15? It’s a story I’ve not watched for years, but I recall being incredibly underwhelmed by it all. The shoddy direction, the redundant Sontarans, and the portrayal of the Time Lords depriving them of any agency or intelligence has always frustrated me. At least they were still somewhat formidable in Deadly Assassin and at least very well characterised, as much as some criticise it for its portrayal of the Time Lords. I don’t understand how they could be as blisteringly incompetent as to allow a bunch of nondescript tin foil aliens to breach through Gallifrey’s defence barrier (even if it was devised by the Doctor), and to then become overwhelmed by the Sontarans in a decidedly pathetic two episode epilogue that ultimately feels like an afterthought. None of it appears remotely well thought out.

All this, alongside Leela’s rushed departure, the extreme padding and the cheapness of it (for a six part finale and a sequel to The Deadly Assassin, it is exceptionally dull) makes for what I consider an extremely disappointing conclusion to season 15. I plan on re-watching the season 15 stories at some stage soon (having recently re-watched Robots of Death and Talons of Weng-Chiang, I thought I’d continue going in order) and will re-assess it with a more informed critique after I see it again, but what are your thoughts on it?

2The Invasion of Time Empty Re: The Invasion of Time 15th February 2020, 7:25 pm

Pepsi Maxil

Pepsi Maxil
The Grand Master

I like it. You've got Leela in a swimming pool, Sontarans, this scene:



What more do you want? Oh, a decent plot. Right.

3The Invasion of Time Empty Re: The Invasion of Time 15th February 2020, 7:46 pm

stengos

stengos

Something interesting to happen at some point in one of the six episodes.

I think it should have ended at the end of episode four.

4The Invasion of Time Empty Re: The Invasion of Time 15th February 2020, 7:48 pm

Tanmann

Tanmann
Dick Tater

It's kind of not without its charms or rewards.

There are some very endearing double-acts going on here, such as between the Doctor and Borusa, Leela and Rodan, some intelligent ideas and bits of writing and character that outdo some whole 80's seasons, and there is a kind of charming sense of Tom and the makers indulging a bit of unplugged jamming.

On the downside, it comes off as an incredibly amateurish walkthrough that lacks any of the urgency a story like this needs. It takes the most compelling idea of Gallifrey being invaded, and pretty much ruins it by seeming so lethargic and apathetic about it.

And finally the conclusion is incredibly sloppy, frustrating and infuriating, as it becomes clear the writers and makers didn't even keep track of how many invading Sontarans there are in the Tardis because there's clearly one left alive they forgot about who we just never see or hear about again. That's not, I don't think, a nit-picky small thing. If the writers can't even keep their story straight or think it doesn't matter in resolving the climactic stakes, then I can't trust the writers know what they're doing at all, and I just feel stupid for investing like they did in the first place.

Sure there's often a fan theory that the D-Mat gun actually erases Storr from time, and ergo completely undoes the very invasion he led. But this is never made lucid by the script, and it's not like they were short of runtime to explain it.

The fact I get so frustrated though is because I did want to like the story, and there was a lot of stuff I did. Certainly I know many of its failures happened for reasons beyond the makers' control in a way I don't think was true of the 80's or New Series' worst, hubris-riddled nadirs.

It is nonetheless a bit of a big blemish on Tom Baker's standout record so far. And I think it really is the first time the show gets genuinely knocked off-course quite badly.

Sometimes I do want to reappraise it and enjoy it's intermittent charms again, but a lot of the time I'm a bit too reluctant to face all six episodes of it again. It tantalizes you but then it tires you.

That's pretty much it.

5The Invasion of Time Empty Re: The Invasion of Time 15th February 2020, 7:51 pm

Pepsi Maxil

Pepsi Maxil
The Grand Master

It's not as good as Time and the Rani.

6The Invasion of Time Empty Re: The Invasion of Time 15th February 2020, 8:53 pm

REDACTED

avatar

Now, the concept behind it is interesting. The idea of the Doctor going mad with power and siding with the bad guys is a unique concept that could be explored rather well. However, the first three episodes are pretty dull and mediocre yet have the odd gem moment worth sticking round for watching, then Part 4 comes along and it gets good and entertaining culminating in the big cliffhanger that remains one of the series best, yet the next two episodes are even more dull and lifeless than the first 3. The Sontarans are rather badly handled and the tone feels too overly lighthearted which wouldn't be a problem if it weren't for the fact that it's a followup to The Deadly Assassin and if it weren't as dreary and staid as Underworld. Leela deserved a better sendoff and Jameson is one of the few shining spots of this.

The Invasion Of Time is a mostly patchy and silly yet dreary and lifeless tale that has the odd gem moment scattered in but sadly doesn't make up for how turgid it is.

7The Invasion of Time Empty Re: The Invasion of Time 15th February 2020, 8:53 pm

iank

iank

I used to rather enjoy this but have found it pretty unwatchable the last few times I've tried it.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKNC69I8Mq_pJfvBireybsg

8The Invasion of Time Empty Re: The Invasion of Time 15th February 2020, 10:39 pm

Ludders

Ludders

It could've been so much better...
I know the budget had dried up by the time of the last two stories of this season, but even so, some of the casting decisions aspects of the plot really don't help this story.
I mean, the Vardans... wtf? I can get over the shimmering silver foil looking a bit shit, but they even SOUND shit. They could at least have put some sort of effect on the voices, that sound all too human, and very accented. It's even worse when they actually appear... they look so totally laughable... talk about anti-climax... And the actors themselves are appalling, and utterly unconvincing.
When The Sontarans appear, they are almost as bad. Not only do the masks looks crap compared to to Lynx, but Kevin Lindsay himself, I'm sure would've pissed himself laughing at the absolutely terrible, stilted acting. Who the fuck cast Deadman? He's fucking awful!
Factor in the tedious running around the so-called Tardis interior (yeah, right) Tom mugging to the camera, and the fact that the Time Lords are once again reduced to bumbling, inefficient idiots, and you've got the makings of once of the most disappointing stories in DW history to date.
On the plus side, as poorly scripted as the Time Lords are, they are very well acted, with some good performances from the key Time Lord characters. The story isn't too bad for the first half, but really starts to go downhill, getting gradually worse as it goes along.
Overall, it's nowhere near as boring as Underworld, but it's just such a big let down for such a major story idea. I'd give it 5/10 at best.

9The Invasion of Time Empty Re: The Invasion of Time 16th February 2020, 4:52 am

Doctor7

avatar

I enjoy it tom seems so mad in this one but he was tricking the baddies the shock reveal of the sontarans was effective sure the vardans look like tin foil but that does not bother me.

10The Invasion of Time Empty Re: The Invasion of Time 16th February 2020, 10:18 am

Rob Filth

Rob Filth

What IS noticeable in this story, particularly in the last two episodes is that Tom Baker gives up any pretense of acting altogether, making up scenes and stupid cunt pratfalls as he goes along.

Amazing to think that he is on display at his absolute acting prowess height during the start of the Season with "Horror Of Fang Rock"(where his performance is perhaps as good as during "Seeds Of Doom") to degenerate into a pratfalling cunt like Sylvester McCoy in "Time and the Rani" by the end of the season in this story.

In fact, I'd say his performance is possibly worse.

http://www.thefuckingobvious.com

11The Invasion of Time Empty Re: The Invasion of Time 19th February 2020, 10:09 pm

Bernard Marx

Bernard Marx

Re-watched this recently. It’s a story bristling with interesting ideas for its first four episodes (and some good characterisation as Tanmann notes), but none of them really come together. The whole thing is so bloody dreary, padded and poorly realised to a very disappointing extent- the Vardans themselves are rubbish (and superfluous by the end anyway), and the whole story seems to have been cobbled together with an over-abundance of ambition and after the season’s budget had declined (the script was allegedly rushed anyway after the original draft was essentially inconceivable for Who’s budget).

Gallifrey itself is crap too, with the intrigue and dynamism surrounding the Time Lord zeitgeist in The Deadly Assassin replaced merely by a bunch of nonentity characters who stand in shit looking corridors reciting their lines whilst being portrayed as a bunch of incompetent imbeciles who are easily overridden by tin foil aliens and a bunch of fucking useless Sontarans who are themselves rendered a farce by episode 6. What a comedown from its season 14 predecessor this is.

The idea of the Doctor seemingly turning on those close to him and with his own ulterior motives is indeed an interesting one, but everything about the production and the narrative just seems so half-arsed, and the last two episodes are no better.

The Sontarans are completely shite (at least they were somewhat intimidating in The Two Doctors), and the tone accumulates a farcical edge whilst also maintaining a sense of drudgery due to the story’s abundantly repetitive nature during episode 6. A massive disappointment all-round, although not completely without merit in that there are some original ideas present, and it could have easily been improved with more tonal consistency, decent direction and a tighter script.

12The Invasion of Time Empty Re: The Invasion of Time 20th February 2020, 8:42 am

Rob Filth

Rob Filth

"Warriors Of The Deep" is a better story.

http://www.thefuckingobvious.com

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