Empty Child opinions

This series 1 tale seems relatively divisive on this forum and amongst Classic fandom, but what are your individual thoughts on it? Some see it as an atmospheric classic and one of the best of NuWho, whilst others berate it for its tonal inconsistencies and corny ending, but what is the Hive’s overall consensus? I personally take the stance that the story is the absolute best of series 1 due to its occasional superb atmosphere and the strength of the guest cast, but does indeed suffer from said tonal inconsistencies many refer to, and the “I can dance” scenes are certainly bloody awful, and showcase Eccleston at his least comfortable.

I've never been that big a fan of it to be honest. Even at the time I thought it was all a bit too meta by half. The scenes between Jack and Rose flirting were pretty stomach churning.

I do remember though liking the interplay between the Doctor and Nancy and thinking it'd be better if the Doctor just dumped Rose and went with her as companion instead. I think there was probably more mileage in her as companion than any other that Moffat actually gave us.

Tanmann wrote:I've never been that big a fan of it to be honest. Even at the time I thought it was all a bit too meta by half. The scenes between Jack and Rose flirting were pretty stomach churning.

I do remember though liking the interplay between the Doctor and Nancy and thinking it'd be better if the Doctor just dumped Rose and went with her as companion instead. I think there was probably more mileage in her as companion than any other that Moffat actually gave us.

Agreed about the scenes between Jack and Rose. They are embarrassingly awful, and stood out as such on my most recent viewing. To be honest, Eccleston, Piper and Barrowman are probably the weak links of the story in terms of performances- the guest cast are all brilliant, with Nancy being particularly well played. It’s just a shame that they are so often sidelined for the idiotic innuendos that the story often indulges in.

Mind you, I still enjoy this more than anything from series 2.

In hindsight it shows that we were going to be in for a lot of overlong moments of self-indulgence (and laboured innuendo) when Moffat took the reins.

Could have been okay if it hadn't been for Barrowman doing his world's worst Lord Flashheart impersonation.

The end of the story was a foreshadowing of Both RTD and Moff's obsessions with resurrections and undo buttons.

Cunnus Maximus wrote:Could have been okay if it hadn't been for Barrowman doing his world's worst Lord Flashheart impersonation.

The end of the story was a foreshadowing of Both RTD and Moff's obsessions with resurrections and undo buttons.

Flashheart was considerably funnier and less grating than Barrowman, yes.

I’d say that Parting of the Ways was the most egregious glance this season into how badly RTD’s use of the reset button and Deus Ex Machina narrative device would become, but the ending to this story is certainly a cringeworthy precursor to that.

I would defend the "everybody lives" ending on the grounds that at least it adhered to and made sense within the story's established logic. That the nanogenes which had transformed the people into zombies could logically undo its own work and transform them back, as was their established, life-sustaining function.

It also happened at a personal cost for Nancy in having to finally brave the truth and risk confronting the boy. So it wasn't just an unearned reward of God-powers.

It felt like there was a logical craft to that ending rather than the writer writing themselves into a corner and just throwing sudden God-powers and pixie dust at the problem.

In and of itself I think it worked quite beautifully, and certainly would've been nice if it had been allowed to maintain its effectiveness by being strictly a one-off, or at least a rarity.

But as we all know, that's not what happened and it did indeed set a bad precedent and a trend.

Tanmann wrote:certainly would've been nice if it had been allowed to maintain its effectiveness by being strictly a one-off, or at least a rarity.

But as we all know, that's not what happened and it did indeed set a bad precedent and a trend.

Well, exactly.

I never considered it a Deus Ex or a cop-out on first viewing. But, as I said, it foreshadowed the constant recycling of similar plot outcomes in this and later seasons of New Who.

To bastardise a phrase: death means death. Even the writers of the New testament had the good sense not to tell the story of Lazarus more than once.

I enjoyed it a lot on the last viewing.

Obviously the setting, with the visually striking Gas-Mask zombies, and the 'are you my mummy' meme made it quite memorable: and surely a more impactful experience on first viewing.

And the point on the ending that Tanman mentioned - I have to agree. The story and resolution had a nice circular feel to it, it didn't feel like an arse-pull like Moffat came to be known for. It isn't fair to judge it by what came after.

It was generally a very good story - at least relatively - and was probably part of the reason that NuWho caught on like it did.

I still like it a lot.

Hmm.. mixed feelings on this. At the time, I really liked TheEmpty Child/The Doctor Dances - it was the first NuWho episode I took seriously and it did seem the most mature/intelligent tale of Series 1. Yet Eccelston has quite a few awkward, gormless moments in this two-parter (onstage at the nightclub, 'Go to your room!', the gun/sonic switch, his clumsy dance at the end of the second episode, etc). However, the 1940's setting is very effective (time travellers dancing to Glen Miller on top of an invisible spaceship, that's tethered to Big Ben during a World War Two air raid, is something only Doctor Who could do). I also remember wishing the Doctor would replace Rose with Nancy as a companion, as I quite warmed to her. The scene featuring the Doctor and Dr Constantine is very powerful and creepy and briefly shows how the returning series could have been, had it been aimed at a slightly older audience - it's almost like an updated Quatermass serial.

I've never understood the love for this one personally. I think it must just be because it came after farting aliens, juke box's in the year 5 billion and magic time dragons that it seemed like a classic to people at the time?

On a recent rewatch I found it quite cheesy, cringey and already full of Mofftwats awful cliches. Its not a bad story by any means, but I think the Mofftwatisms let it down badly. Had it been under Hinchcliff or Cartmel, or Letts then yeah the basic idea would probably have been strong.

Good points

The mystery about the gas mask people is quite interesting and the explanation satisfactory.

John Barrowman I actually thought was great in this episode. I'm a little biased as I like him overall, but I felt he gave quite a multi faceted performance. He brought a lot of different layers to Jack's character to the point where you weren't quite sure where his loyalties lay. He was light hearted in some moments, but just as good in dealing with the deeper scenes like Jack's guilt in causing the problem, and when he faces his death. In spite of their dislike for each other personally, Jack and Eccelston were also quite good foils for each other too.

As others have pointed out there are genuinely tense and creepy moments like when the child first appears at the letter box.

The guest stars overall for this story are strong, even the minor bit players like Richard Wilson.

Bad points.

Right away Mofftwat insists on writing the Doctor as a blokish guy, boasting about the women he's shagged, but being awkward around women at the same time (basically an avatar of himself in other words.)

We get the dreadful line about looking for a blonde, and not just waking up with a craving, and all of the "dance" scenes. Him and Rose together, him saying the human race dances, and of course the "ROSE, ROSE, ROSE I CAN DANCE AGAIN, I CAN DANCE AGAIN" at the end. Its made worse by the fact that even Eccelston looks embarassed delivering those lines (who can blame him.)

I remember in the confidential Steven Moffat said that the whole episode was about sex, because the Doctor is hopelessly in love with Rose, and he said that the bit where Jack and the Doctor argue about the gun and screwdriver is a metaphor for whose penis is bigger.

Right away the man had the attitude of a teenager when writing the series and it shows. I always like to compare Mofftwats quote about the show being all about sex, with Terry Nation's when he said he loved writng for DW because he could create entire worlds. Really sums up why True Who was a more mature series overall.

Lots of other cringey lines like The Doctor's "I don't know about the enemy but you scare the hell out of me."

Also the gas mask effects look really goofy and silly. I know its just the effects, but still since they always rip on true who for that, then why the hell not.