Does anyone else think that the main difference between Doctor Who and nuwho is ...

..That Doctor Who was a boys show and nuwho is a girls show?

They share the same name, and have superficial similarity's but at it's heart the two programmes are fundamentally different and were designed to be from the outset.
Doctor Who was a boy's own adventure with little romance or kitchen sink drama.
Whereas nuwho is about emotion,relationships,family (& latterly) diversity politics and social justice issues. Topics that stereotypicaly are enjoyed more by women than men.

Doctor Who apart from Lambert was conceived by middle aged straight men who just wanted to tell cracking adventures, unlike nuwho which was created and produced by 2 gay men and a feminist who always wanted to push certain ideologies.

And given all that wouldn't it have been better just to have made nuwho a complete reboot from the start?

Well True Who was always aimed at science fiction fans and as a rule they are mostly male. New Who as Terry Pratchett has pointed out wasn't.

And I would have preferred that they had made New Who a completely different show altogether rather than a re-boot.

Well as you know I subscribe to the New Who and Old Who take place in two different universes theory. There is no way to bring them both together other than as a multiverse.

A lot of people however don't even like them being connected via a multiverse. Personally however I think that's the best compromise as it allows you to pick and choose the stuff that's good from New Who, without having to make it proper canon. Also you can link the classic era with other bits of spin off material that don't fit either.

Incidentally I recently got into a debate on Gallifrey Base with a guy about whether or not classic and new who take place in the same universe he got really mad and we argued back and forth for hours.

When it came to the subject of the Master I obviously said the romantic relationship between them in New Who goes against the character, but he insisted that the Master was always gay for the Doctor and argued that in The Keeper of Traken, the Master tried to dry hump the Doctor and Tremas.

I do think that adventure, sci fi and monsters are things that men on average tend to be drawn too, but I think women can like those things too. Its kind of like romance. Women generally tend to be drawn to love stories more, but guys can still appreciate those things as well.

I mean hey I love Titanic, as do many guys, and Buffy and Angel and Fry and Leela etc, all of these things have male fans.

The problem is however when its something that men might be drawn to then people feel it must be sexist. It must be a boys only little club.

Its a double standard for sure, but it is often self loathing straight men like Paul Cornell who bring about this double standard.

Take a look at this pathetic article from Paul Cornell.

Paul Cornell 50/50 Panel Parity

burrunjor wrote:he insisted that the Master was always gay for the Doctor and argued that in The Keeper of Traken, the Master tried to dry hump the Doctor and Tremas.

Jesus Christ Almighty. It's got to a stage now where the looney's in fandom are so far gone you can't tell the difference between the genuine fuckwits or poe's trolling.

burrunjor wrote:Take a look at this pathetic article from Paul Cornell.

Paul Cornell 50/50 Panel Parity

There's a real possibility that Paul Cornell is the biggest cuck on the planet.

Yes.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Sci-fi or otherwise, Classic Who was a Boy's Own Adventure show. It was about adventure and exploration and derring-do.
New Who is a soap. It's about feelings and crying and shipping etc etc. From the start Davies was trying to make it appeal to the female audience. To be fair, I think he was trying to do both, but the problem is that doesn't work and the moment you try you compromise what it actually is.
And now the show is completely 100% aimed at chicks. There's no arguing the point, it just is. No little boys are going to be interested in the current drek. No ten year old lad is going to want merchandise with Pisstaker's face on it.
The modern hacks have completely betrayed the program's original target audience. Much like Paul Marcunt did with The Bill in the 2000s.

Agree with above comments - not sure who exactly watches New Who anymore, irrespective of their gender it's such an awful product of current BBC agenda-driven politics that it risks ever more limited audiences. Back in the heyday of the classic series, boys rather than girls did seem the majority audience but that's probably the case with all science fiction series of that time. Even so, the show was popular with mixed family audiences for many years so a sizeable female audience was undoubtedly included.

Perhaps the main difference between classic Who and the new series which shares its name (if little else!) is the latter's preoccupation with predominantly female companions of the Doctor at the unprecedented expense of the show's title character - "relationships" are the raison d'être at the expense of plot.

The classic series allowed character relationships to emerge as a by product of the 'adventure' itself so the story remained the main priority even if audiences could watch at different levels. For instance, if some viewers hoped for something like a romantic relationship for characters - say between the 3rd Doc and Jo or between the 4th Doc and Romana well this could be imagined perhaps as a subtext but there was never any need to alienate those watching who were just concerned with whether or not the heroes escaped from the Daleks etc.

New Who unfortunately abandoned much of the science fiction and adventure elements that helped popularise the original series, concentrating more on 'soap' orientated themes. Even this might have been understandable given the perceived need to attract and retain a wider audience and a more frank approach to sexual themes, if sensitively handled given modern sensibilities, might have succeeded. But all we got were lesbian Silurians who were little better an idea than comedy Sontarans and a less than respectful treatment of classic Who-related imagery increasingly resembled parody.

We can speculate about how much the New Who audience currently identifies based on gender, especially with modern notions of stereotypes and an increasingly dogmatic tone of political posturing, but characterisation is the real difference between the old and new series. New Who's sex changes of characters like the Master (Missy? my arse!) and of course the Doctor himself, just reflect the current bastardised version continuing to jettison the very core of the original series. That the titular hero of this show is now apparently a gender bender may not be as relevant as it might seem (aside from being an inconsistent rewrite of the original regeneration concept) because the Doctor as depicted from 2005 has never really been an authentic version of the Doctor from 1963-89, or even 1996, anyway.

I can understand the SJW's/NPC's and millennial nuwho fans loving series 11 but I have a hard time understanding what people my age (46) and older who grew up with truwho like about it.
I'm really dismayed when people who I thought were on my wavelength from my own generation (like Martin from the Krynoid Podcast) claim to have "really enjoyed series 11"

These are people who grew up watching from late Pertwee onward.
These are people who grew up with robots of death,talons,caves etc...How they can derive any entertainment from the new series Is beyond me. It's like going from a Michelin 3 star dinner to a big mac meal.

I completely agree. It's baffling.

bryanbraddock wrote:I can understand the SJW's/NPC's and millennial nuwho fans loving series 11 but I have a hard time understanding what people my age (46) and older who grew up with truwho like about it.

Same. Perhaps media conditioning has taken full effect on them. It can have a powerful influence over weaker minds.

What has always alienated me from the modern series is the sexualization of the Doctor and the content of the programme in general. I find it inappropriate. The Doctor should be completely asexual and the companions celibate for the time they travel with the Doctor. I suppose you can trace the sexualization of the Doctor back to the TV movie and the infamous 'kiss' which paved the way for the strongly suspected venereal tenth regeneration. Although I actually think Moffat could be worse than Davies for the heightened sexual awareness in the series. Much of the later Matt Smith series' are ruined by the flirtatious behaviour between the Doctor and Clara. I always got the impression with iconoclastic fans like Davies and Moffat that the Doctor's past lack of sexual awareness, 'You're a beautiful woman. Probably' was something strongly resented not least because fans such as myself held that aspect of the Doctor's character quite dear.

The ironic thing is that the Doctor's asexuality and status as a hero who wasn't constantly lusting after some girl was pretty much the whole reason the show acquired such a large gay following in the first place. The NuWho writers were happy to throw those fans under the bus to pander to the mainstream audience, only resorting to gender/sexuality virtue signalling once that ship had sailed. I have occasionally heard some older gay fans speak up about this, but surprisingly few.

ClockworkOcean wrote:The ironic thing is that the Doctor's asexuality and status as a hero who wasn't constantly lusting after some girl was pretty much the whole reason the show acquired such a large gay following in the first place. The NuWho writers were happy to throw those fans under the bus to pander to the mainstream audience, only resorting to gender/sexuality virtue signalling once that ship had sailed. I have occasionally heard some older gay fans speak up about this, but surprisingly few.

It does very much seem as if modern Doctor Who is courting a different audience although its defenders insist it has always been a family show. It appears NuWho is about achieving popularity at the expense of some aspects fans once took for granted e.g. the Doctor not having relationships with his companions. Having an emotionally reserved and asexual Doctor wasn't allowed on modern television and the head writers have tried to distance the modern regenerations from previous portrayals. The War Doctor was a deliberate throwback and trying to shoehorn Capaldi into the NuWho mould had disastrous consequences and was a disservice to the actor.

bryanbraddock wrote:..That Doctor Who was a boys show and nuwho is a girls show?

Well it sure isn't for men, given what a gutless pussy you are.

Bladeswitch wrote:

bryanbraddock wrote:..That Doctor Who was a boys show and nuwho is a girls show?

Well it sure isn't for men, given what a gutless pussy you are.

You are an asshole, just saying.

DogStar2000 wrote:

Bladeswitch wrote:

bryanbraddock wrote:..That Doctor Who was a boys show and nuwho is a girls show?

Well it sure isn't for men, given what a gutless pussy you are.

You are an asshole, just saying.

Badge of honor, pal.

But you haven't disproven my point that bryanbraddock is a gutless pussy have you?

bryanbraddock wrote:lol I had a great weekend.  
I went up to Old Trafford and watched United beat Watford, I spent Saturday night in a pub catching up with old friends in Manchester, and spent Sunday Afternoon trout fishing in Goostrey

Translation: I ran away from the forum and now desperately need to save face by posting about how busy I actually was that weekend, honest!

Bladeswitch wrote:

bryanbraddock wrote:lol I had a great weekend.  
I went up to Old Trafford and watched United beat Watford, I spent Saturday night in a pub catching up with old friends in Manchester, and spent Sunday Afternoon trout fishing in Goostrey

Translation: I ran away from the forum and now desperately need to save face by posting about how busy I actually was that weekend, honest!

Translation: Shit! Bryan had a decent weekend, so now I have gaslight everyone into thinking he ran away, while pretending I didn't obsessively stalk the forum with bated breath, waiting for crumbs to respond to with my weak sauce trolling.

I didn't deny he *might've* had a decent weekend. I said his need to post about it showed he was desperate to save face after running away.

Besides, my 'weak sauce trolling' sure managed to shut you up for a few days didn't it?

Almost as if beneath the edgy front, you're really quite spineless and vacuous under it all.

Bladeswitch wrote:Besides, my 'weak sauce trolling' sure managed to shut you up for a few days didn't it?

Almost as if beneath the edgy front, you're really quite spineless and vacuous under it all.

It's almost as if the other posters had normal shit to do over the weekend, (except you) isn't it?  

Still, I must congratulate you for having the courage to admit you were the only saddo sitting on the edge of their chair all weekend, refreshing this page in the desperate hope that someone, anyone, might post something.

Boofer wrote:It's almost as if the other posters had normal shit to do over the weekend, (except you) isn't it?  

I don't need to brag about the productive shit I got done over the weekend or where I went out.

Still, I must congratulate you for having the courage to admit you were the only saddo sitting on the edge of their chair all weekend, refreshing this page in the desperate hope that someone, anyone, might post something.

I didn't admit to trolling at all. If you notice I put trolling in mocking quotes. If I was trolling I would make shit up, but I don't have to here. Bryan really is a proven gutless worm, you really *were* playing the victim the other day before my very eyes by crying about how 'abusive' I was being to you.

Besides, don't try to flip the fact that you and Bryan went into retreat into being somehow a victory for you, by desperately spinning it as "Ahah, the fact we were driven off the forum now proves we're not as sad as the guy who managed to outface us because we can now claim we spent more time off the forum."

If length of time spent on the forum conveniently now equates to levels of 'sadness'... then why the fuck are you even here still?

I mean that's just desperate.

It's such a child's way of trying to win an argument. A "Oh we don't have a response to him, but how about this? We'll duck it and then we can claim the joke's somehow on him for awaiting one"

I mean is that your strategy? Defy my expectations by being really shit? Well congratulations, if so it worked. I was NOT expecting you to be this pathetic!

What would I be running away from? more silly rambling boring nonsense from an internet tough guy?
"oh noes he doesn't have the same taste in doctor who than me!" wahhhhhhhhhhhh.
Look, you're a lolcow who's amusing to milk from time to time, but your obsessiveness is creepy, and your rhetoric is very very boring. That's why people block you, because your tedius. Not because they are afraid of loosing a battle of wits against a troglodyte who has none!

Now, I have an idea that might make you feel better. I'm offering you the chance to settle the score mano e mano.
Obviously you feel like you have been wronged in someway so would an IRL fight make you feel better? You can even get someone to film it and you could post here,on youtube or wherever.

Now you're a guy who likes to act tough on the internet, but from what I can remember IRL you look like the character Karl Pilkington played in Derek. And although I haven't had an actual real fist fight in about 15 years since I got out of the army but I still think I can be a bit tasty, and I reckon I could handle you pretty easily.

So lets meet up, somewhere neutral in between our two locations so we can sort this out without boring the hive with this tedious back and forth for the next few months.
Use one of your split personalities on here sadako/bladeswitch/DoctorWhoDied1981/  whatever your calling yourself today and let me know if you really want me to "finish this".