The Labour leadership race

I've been getting more acquainted with the deputy leader nominees' speeches this evening.

Over the past few weeks I've come to think Richard Burgon is a little like Barry Gardiner, not in terms of style but in the way his personality gets written off by the press when he actually has something of substance in what he says. As Rob says he was very clear about how he sees the role - I liked his Harold Wilson "a bird needs two wings to fly" quote.

Dawn Butler was more inspiring and passionate here than in recent interviews, where I've felt she can be a little long-winded and ingratiating. She also seemed keen on making her CV clear, first & foremost.

Ian Murray's opening pitch was oddly downbeat - "the seats we'll never win". Also why risk resources by going to the seats you've won, even after a disappointing result - what would be learnt? However he made a curious pop at the 'yes man' nature of past Labour leaderships, which may resonate with non-members.

Dr Rosena Allin-Khan: I didn't know much about her 'til now. Her opening pitch was a little generic, I thought, but seemed to aimed at appealing to the Corbynites.

And Angela Rayner? My first thought was that in that outfit she looks a bit like a Vervoid!

Breaking news: just heard on the itv news that Keir Starmer has the backing of the shopworkers union.

For once he didn't look like a man who knows his pregnant mistress is driving round to the family home to confront him...

Thanks for the link Rob. I'll take a look at that as soon as I get chance.
Interesting to hear both yours and others perspectives on it.

Just foud time to catch up with the Hustings, and I have to agree with Rob about. The person I was most impressed with was not Starmer, but Thornberry. By a long way, to be honest. And there's nobody more surprised than me.
To be fair though, I also thought Nandy and Starmer did ok, but RLB definitely came across weak. But not as bad as Phillips. Wtf is wrong with her? It's like she's on mogadon.

Ludders wrote:Just foud time to catch up with the Hustings, and I have to agree with Rob about. The person I was most impressed with was not Starmer, but Thornberry. By a long way, to be honest. And there's nobody more surprised than me.
To be fair though, I also thought Nandy and Starmer did ok, but RLB definitely came across weak. But not as bad as Phillips. Wtf is wrong with her? It's like she's on mogadon.

She’s fucking terrible. Clearly gave no fucks about what she was actually saying as they were evidently improvised on the spot (not to mention delivered with as much condescending lethargy and patronisation as to rival Jo Swinson- at least the others trusted the intelligence of their audience and membership), and kept glancing at other nearby candidates in a decidedly bizarre manner.

Nandy grew on me a little as it progressed, yes, and Thornberry was easily the best of the bunch in terms of presentation.

Bernard Marx wrote:

Ludders wrote:Just foud time to catch up with the Hustings, and I have to agree with Rob about. The person I was most impressed with was not Starmer, but Thornberry. By a long way, to be honest. And there's nobody more surprised than me.
To be fair though, I also thought Nandy and Starmer did ok, but RLB definitely came across weak. But not as bad as Phillips. Wtf is wrong with her? It's like she's on mogadon.

She’s fucking terrible. Clearly gave no fucks about what she was actually saying as they were evidently improvised on the spot (not to mention delivered with as much condescending lethargy and patronisation as to rival Jo Swinson- at least the others trusted the intelligence of their audience and membership), and kept glancing at other nearby candidates in a decidedly bizarre manner.

Nandy grew on me a little as it progressed, yes, and Thornberry was easily the best of the bunch in terms of presentation.

I've never really liked Thornberry to be honest, but after Rob said she did well, I wanted to see it for myself. I was surprised, but yeah she comes across as the best Boris basher, and ideology aside, that's important.
They all had good things to say, except maybe Phillips who was just plain weird!

Bernard Marx wrote:no fucks about what she was actually saying as they were evidently improvised on the spot (not to mention delivered with as much condescending lethargy and patronisation as to rival Jo Swinson- at least the others trusted the intelligence of their audience and membership), and kept glancing at other nearby candidates in a decidedly bizarre manner.

She came across as an ignorant arrogant bully saying, "Nah nah, I've got Murdoch on my side and he can demolish all of you little people".

Her body language said it all, when RHB was laying out a vision for regional power bases for a bottom-up approach to Government legislation making, Phillips was standing there looking scornfully, arms folded. She was doing the same with Thornberry and got an inaudible side dig in when she was answering the anti-semitism question, that's why I'm so glad Thornberry took no shit and swotted her away.

Don't forget Phillips is Rees-Moggs little chummie pleb-pal who often likes to go slurping champers at media events such as the right-wing Spectator magazine. This is the MP who consistently laid into the Leadership, membership and helped get Marc Wadsworth expelled who's done more to fight racism than ignorant little gobshites like her ever will. This is the MP who Channel 4 caught live on tv laughing and celebrating Labour seats crashing down on Election night because it finally meant she'd completed her mission in getting rid of Corbyn.

The reason why her answers are so bad is because why the hell should she prep for any questions when Murdoch's on her side?

A lot of rotten apples have now gone from the Labour Party which is actually one good achievement of Corbyn's administration, even if he was ultimately doomed to failure obtaining office. Unfortunately Jess Phillips wasn't one of them.

She's a female version of the odious John Mann.

I must admit Thornberry put in a strong performance in that hustings and there were several times she seemed to garner genuine, spontaneous applause.

Her answer to the anti-semitic question was spot and reflected my thoughts: you can criticise the Israeli government without being anti-semitic. To equate the two gives Israeli governments a blank cheque to act without licence in a very dangerous part of the world.

Starmer on the other hand was disappointing. Again on the anti-Semitism, he seemed to mirror much of what Thorn said but then trailed off towards the end. Almost as if he lost interest in his own answer. Based on this I would say he's thrown his hat in the ring but is now beginning to think he doesn't want the role. No doubt I am wrong - I don't really expect him to pull out. But it's not a good look for those watching the hustings who would support him.

I have no problem with any Labour MP striking up friendships with Tory MPs. Labour are stuck in opposition. You have no direct control over the leavers of power for the next five years. Johnson has a majority of circa 80 MPs. All any backbencher will get is a small degree of influence in the details of legislation on the back of close workings with HMG. To my mind that is worthwhile and so such relationships/friendship should be encouraged. It doesn't make such people closet Tories or traitors to the labour cause. Rather realists who want to do the best for their constituents.

Rob Filth wrote:

Bernard Marx wrote:no fucks about what she was actually saying as they were evidently improvised on the spot (not to mention delivered with as much condescending lethargy and patronisation as to rival Jo Swinson- at least the others trusted the intelligence of their audience and membership), and kept glancing at other nearby candidates in a decidedly bizarre manner.

She came across as an ignorant arrogant bully saying, "Nah nah, I've got Murdoch on my side and he can demolish all of you little people".

Her body language said it all, when RHB was laying out a vision for regional power bases for a bottom-up approach to Government legislation making, Phillips was standing there looking scornfully, arms folded. She was doing the same with Thornberry and got an inaudible side dig in when she was answering the anti-semitism question, that's why I'm so glad Thornberry took no shit and swotted her away.

Don't forget Phillips is Rees-Moggs little chummie pleb-pal who often likes to go slurping champers at media events such as the right-wing Spectator magazine. This is the MP who consistently laid into the Leadership, membership and helped get Marc Wadsworth expelled who's done more to fight racism than ignorant little gobshites like her ever will. This is the MP who Channel 4 caught live on tv laughing and celebrating Labour seats crashing down on Election night because it finally meant she'd completed her mission in getting rid of Corbyn.

The reason why her answers are so bad is because why the hell should she prep for any questions when Murdoch's on her side?

A lot of rotten apples have now gone from the Labour Party which is actually one good achievement of Corbyn's administration, even if he was ultimately doomed to failure obtaining office. Unfortunately Jess Phillips wasn't one of them.

She's a female version of the odious John Mann.

I did find her response to the election result particularly unnerving at the time. It just seemed to affirm the overt tribalism that had emerged within the party. She seemed to prioritise Corbyn’s defeat over that of a Labour victory purely to further her own ambitions. She does come across as rather insidious to me- no wonder the media seem to be lapping her up.

Regardless of whether the other candidates displayed flaws in their arguments and presentations, they at least seemed to understand what they were discussing. I find it rather noticeable how Philips didn’t seem willing to acknowledge the strengths of the manifesto at all and purely acknowledged its weaknesses, which probably plays into that tribal nature she exhibits against the last four years of Labour leadership, and her bias towards Murdoch. Thornberry’s take on that issue impressed me, in contrast, as she at least acknowledged that the manifesto was theoretically very good, just overloaded and thus skepticism-inducing.

I’m not particularly inspired by any of the candidates, quite honestly, and don’t see how any of them will necessarily grant Labour any substantial electoral advantages at this point (either due to their lack of influence within the North, perceptions of their social status, disingenuousness, etc), but this is what we’re getting, I suppose.

Jess was on The Last Leg show the other night. I just think her style, dress and comments will cement her with the student union vote but will alienate other areas of the electorate.

Mott1 wrote:Jess was on The Last Leg show the other night. I just think her style, dress and comments will cement her with the student union vote but will alienate other areas of the electorate.

Large whisperings on the grapevine that Jess Phillips is seriously considering dropping out the race before she completely humiliates herself at the first vote stage.

She just released a huge self-pitying video moaning that because she is human and not a robot she shouldn't have prepped answers when people ask her questions and that Politicians should be chosen for personalities rather than policies, which is odd because she doesn't appear to possess either.

Here's a handy chart showing some of the voting record and positioning of the candidates which gives you a good idea what they stand for/would be like as Leader.

Interesting enough, Keir Starmer's positioning is almost as bad as Phillips.

Yup, she's gone!

Couldn't even hang around to humiliated in the vote.

I guess she found out that slagging people off constantly for 4 years is far easier than actually offering any inspiring vision of your own.

I'm sure Uncle Rupert, Preston and Rees-Mogg will all lend her a collective shoulder to cry upon....

Regarding the welfare bill....

Starmer was put right by none other than Diane Abbott on Twitter.

HERE

It looks like a LOT of Labour MPs abstained or voted with the Tories.

HERE

And yet those selective memes can be deceiving, because according to his voting record on benefit cuts; he's voted against them 18 times with 5 absences. And he's voted for higher benefits for people unable to work due to illness or disability 8 times with 2 absences.

Having said all that, at the moment I'm leaning more towards Thornberry, and also Nandy who I also came across well in that husting.

As for Phillips, no great loss.....

Ludders wrote:Regarding the welfare bill....

Starmer was put right by none other than Diane Abbott on Twitter.

HERE

It looks like a LOT of Labour MPs abstained or voted with the Tories.

HERE

That day when Labour MP's let that bill go through will forever be a day of shame for the party, it was why Corbyn was so badly needed in that 2015 Leadership contest to reset the party back to it's roots and regain its moral compass because they were nothing but a fucking disgrace beforehand.

The problem with Nandy is she was right in it when it came to the Chicken Coup and forced Leadership bid by that utter thicko twat Owen Smith(she ran his campaign) which was responsible for Labour losing the 2017 Election. Labour were ahead in the polls and could've conceivably made huge capital out of the Tories falling apart when they lost the EU Ref, but oh no, the Blairite wankers all had to throw their fucking toys out the pram instead because they never for one minute respected a democratic choice the membership had made in choosing the Leader which consequently sorely affected Labour in the Polls after(They were 24 pts behind prior to GE17)

This is the problem with these Blairite cunts, they just can't accept democracy and just want autocratic rule and this is exactly why the party got such a huge pounding in GE19 over the same attitude toward the EU Ref result with that strategically stupid 2nd Ref policy they all fucking threw their toys out the pram for, and if they don't get their own way they all start bawling about "broad churches" like a bunch of cunts to the media and referencing Stalin.

McDonnell's biggest mistake ever was appeasing those fucking clueless dickheads for the sake of party unity, he and Corbyn should've just told the lot of them to fuck off to Jo Swinsons set of losers along with the Funny Tinge Group of prats. Especially Tom Watson, he was the biggest cunt of all. Fucking two faced Chris Evans lookalike who ate a tapeworm, I prefered him when he's eaten all the pies. "But Jewemy we'll be 20 points ahead in the polls if we adopt this useless policy which tells all our precarious North seats to fuck off" - fucking prick.

I think Thornberry is the best out of a bad bunch but I doubt she'll get through the next few rounds unless she gets some sort of Union backing, personally I think she deserves it far more than Nandy who looks like a Labrador which has just kissed a nettle.

Nandy also slagged off a member of the party named on air on Andrew Neil as being an anti-semite. I follow this person on twitter and if they were an anti-semite they would be struck straight off my list and put on block. The member subsequently got dogpiled for huge amounts of abuse from far right Netanyahu supporters and all the gnasher trolls.

Boris will walk all over Nandy. I prefer even the repeat-scripted Long-Bailey robot to her.

I'm just glad I'm not a member of the party because I'd be reviewing it right now and seriously considering withdrawing my direct debit.

Then again, the reason why I never became a member was because of the cuntish behaviour of the party during the Owen Smith Leadership bid and the outrageous purges which took place when they tried to fiddle the vote. A friend of mine who had been a member for decades was kicked out. I was going to join because I found Corbyn inspiring but because of the way the PLP behaved I thought, "fuck that, I'm not paying for those bunch of cunts acting the way they are"

The whole fake Anti Semitism McCarthyite witch hunt was another huge turn off reason why I decided against joining the party. Marc Wadsworths expulsion was utterly shameful. Although I think on occasion Chris Williamson was insensitive or indeed stupid I think his expulsion was unfair and largely confected too.  

I would have gladly joined otherwise, but the abusive disingenuous behaviour working within the media by these Blairite twats is just too great. I'm not throwing good money after rubbish.

You only have to see the list of who's nominated each candidate for Leadership to see what they're about. All of the very worst MP's in the party nominated Jess Phillips for example & all the Blairites are for Starmer and Nandy.

Thornberry really is the ONLY "centrist" candidate(for want of a better word) which both Corbynites and Balirites might accept, but unfortunately she doesn't have much chance at present because the media have already framed it as a straight fight between the Long-Bailey robot and Starmer "I've just done a pooh in my pants"

Well that basically just leaves RLB, and I can't see her ever leading Labour into government. So it's like I said a few posts back; it's ideological purity vs unity/compromise.
On the one hand ideological purity is great, because you're sticking to your core beliefs, and you can hold your head up, so long as you can live with the fact that you're reducing the chance of getting into government.
It's a tough call and it's frustrating as fuck. I went Green for a few years 'coz I was sick of voting for Labour on a lesser of the two evils basis, and didn't come back until Corbyn; but now I'm asking myself if voting for ideology is a waste of a vote if it doesn't stand chance of achieving anything, and maybe 'lesser of two evils' is the best we can hope for?
Like I say, fucking frustrating.

Have you seen Lisa 'docile dog sent to its corner' Nandy has the backing of Jess 'how magnanimous of me to withdraw when i've got no unions in my corner' Phillips? That could do her more harm than good...

From the perspective of somone primarily concerned with disability rights, Long-Bailey is the only one with a respectable voting record. That none of the others had the courage of their convictions to vote against the welfare bill in 2015 speaks volumes about their true motivation for running. That being said, I can't see Long-Bailey winning in 2025.

I was initially impressed by Nandy's focus on reconnecting with working-class voters and her track record of opposing the disastrous second referendum policy, but her campaign has thus far been hollow and insubstantial. Her infamous Catalonia gaffe, though not the outrageous statement it initially seemed, would have been so ridiculously easy to avoid that it alone makes her a non-viable candidate. She'd be a PR disaster even without Murdoch and friends out to discredit her.

I agree with Rob that Starmer came across surprisingly weak, and Thornberry surprisingly strong in the recent hustings.

As for Jess Phillips, I don't believe for a second that she ever wanted the job. She saw the contest as an opportunity for publicity, as pretext for yet another self-aggrandising opinion piece in The Graun boasting about how she's "too real" for the system.

All in all, it doesn't look too hopeful for Labour, and I reckon we're in for at least another decade of Tory rule.

Ludders wrote:Well that basically just leaves RLB, and I can't see her ever leading Labour into government. So it's like I said a few posts back; it's ideological purity vs unity/compromise.
On the one hand ideological purity is great, because you're sticking to your core beliefs, and you can hold your head up, so long as you can live with the fact that you're reducing the chance of getting into government.
It's a tough call and it's frustrating as fuck. I went Green for a few years 'coz I was sick of voting for Labour on a lesser of the two evils basis, and didn't come back until Corbyn; but now I'm asking myself if voting for ideology is a waste of a vote if it doesn't stand chance of achieving anything, and maybe 'lesser of two evils' is the best we can hope for?
Like I say, fucking frustrating.

Yup, I know what you're saying here completely. As awful as the Con/Dem coalition were I couldn't vote Labour in the 2010 GE, not when they were trying trying to chase the Murdoch populism of benefits-bashing and migrant demonising, it was truly sickening to see. Miliband was turned into a complete twit by the parties obsession with image consultants and media brand packaging.

I too opted for Green that year and even joined the party in the run-up to the Election because they were literally the only ones opposing UKIP and the media love-in with Farage whilst all the other parties had merged into clones of each other.

The problem I find with Long-Bailey after watching her Kuenssberg interview is really that she's a backroom girl. That's not to devalue her in any way but she just doesn't really come across as a frontline operator. It's utterly depressing that she's been chosen as the left-field candidate instead of someone like Lavery. Unless she has some sudden breakout moment during the hustings like slapping the glum labrador face for being a chicken coup traitor and causing an all women 3-way wrestling contest in front of the podiums there's absolutely no way on earth I can see her beating Starmer.

It's also utterly depressing that the real piss & vinegar candidate of Thornberry has been so utterly overlooked to the point she won't get a decent running, there's no way anyone can convince me Nandys glum looking labrador face is a better candidate, even if she is less contentious than Thornberry.

ClockworkOcean wrote:All in all, it doesn't look too hopeful for Labour, and I reckon we're in for at least another decade of Tory rule.

It certainly looks that way after such a surprisingly large defeat.

The only thing which is any consolation and perhaps puts the defeat in better context is that the Tories under Michael Howard suffered a worst defeat in 2005 and yet the Tories found themselves in Government the following electoral cycle.

The Tories HAVE also inherited the incredible poisoned chalice of Brexit too and will find themselves in incredible difficulty once the transition period ends if they continue with their from the ground up approach to Brexit.

I personally suspect the fall out could be ten times that of a Poll Tax bomb.

Oppositions never win power, but Governments mostly lose power once the economy is completely fucked, Labour after the Winter of Discontent, Tories after Black Wednesday and Labour after the Bankers Crash.

Brexit has all of the ingredients to cause a huge economic collapse which could finish the Tories off for a generation afterwards if not handled correctly and I seriously doubt the current crop in cabinet have the nous to do that.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-leadership-jess-phillips-team-21344954

She doesn't exactly lack an ego, does she?

Mott1 wrote:https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-leadership-jess-phillips-team-21344954

She doesn't exactly lack an ego, does she?

I expect she door knocked on all of them like the 25,000 doors she claimed she knocked on during the 6 week election campaign! 

With sleep and eating factored in that's 1.61 minutes per home to get to 25,000 and with her mogadon type slurred voice presumably only had time to say, "Hello I'm your MP" before running out the gate and to the next house.

If Nandy does win Phillips will probably stumble into her office moments after she's settled in, saying she wants a job in the Shadow Cabinet. "It were me wot won it for you bab..."

Imagine her on the radio as the labrador's Shadow Home Secretary! She'll make Diane Abbott seem like a safe pair of hands...

Mott1 wrote:If Nandy does win Phillips will probably stumble into her office moments after she's settled in, saying she wants a job in the Shadow Cabinet. "It were me wot won it for you bab..."

Imagine her on the radio as the labrador's Shadow Home Secretary! She'll make Diane Abbott seem like a safe pair of hands...

It's funny how Labours left-wing are ALWAYS portrayed as being incompetent and inept when really none of them have ever been tried and tested for over 40 years.

Was Tony Benn really THAT inept as Trade & Industry or Technology minister?

Not that I can recall.

Whereas there is plenty of recent evidence of the utter cluelessness of the so-called "moderate" right wing  of the Party.

Embracing a 2nd Vote on something the electorate had already voted upon is the most recent prime example.

Yes, Starmer is definitely focusing on distancing himself from the 'Westminster bubble' in recent interview. He's clearly focusing on rebuilding the red wall in the North.

Indeed Starmer and Rayner have been endorsed by the Community union as their 'dream team'.