Best RTD Doctor

Which of RTD’s two incarnations was the superior one? I’m not keen on either myself, but what do you guys think?

I voted Eccleston simply because he had more grit and gravitas and didn't feel like a leaking vessel of a character like Tennant unfortunately did.

Tennant, mostly on the basis that Series 4 had more standout episodes than any of RTD's previous series, including Eccleston's. On the rare occasion when he was given the chance to simply engage with the plot with minimal soap opera interruptions, he felt more like the Doctor to me than Eccleston.

Eccleston for his brief moments of fire and fury which he does so well.
But mainly because I can't stand Tennant at any price.

Upon further consideration, I have to vote for Eccleston. Although I find it really difficult to envision his performance as remotely Doctorish (and series 1 is much worse than most people assume), he’s much more consistently written and doesn’t come across as insufferably manic for 90% of his screentime. Although I think that aspects of series 3 and 4 are better than basically all of series 1, which makes the choice a little murkier, but series 2 is staggeringly bad.

Maybe it's a bit of nostalgia, but I'd still go for Tennant, and he's still my favourite NewWho Doctor (even though I know that Smith is objectively better). Despite my issues and RTD screwing Tennant's Doctor almost as much as Moffat did with Capaldi, I think his performance still elevates even the most gobshite of stories. But, I do think that the 10th Doctor is much better realised in the Titan Comics and Novels.

I find Tennant to be a better actor than Eccleston, and he’s fine during scenes where he’s actually playing the Doctor, but RTD’s writing and handling of his character makes him very grating much of the time. I find Eccleston to be rather overrated as an actor, given that he usually plays some variation of an angered northerner and doesn’t typically opt for variety (though I did quite like him in ‘Elizabeth’ (1998) as he does play a figure of aristocracy in that and does it rather well, which I wish he’d done for Who), but I’d say he was less caricatured by RTD.

I dont much care fo either but ...

The Doctor just isnt a bin man. No disrespect to binmen here. Its a vitally important job to local communities. I sincerely have the greatest respect for people in that field of work.

My kids loved Tenant when they were growing up so his era does bring back a certain sense of nostalgia for that period.

So i go for Tenant.

Sorry ...

David Tennant by a country mile. I'm not keen on either. Both are excellent actors, but neither were natural choices for the Doctor TBH. Eccelston struggles to be eccentric, whilst Tennant is too much of a conventional leading man. The Doctor IMO should be played by an eccentric character actor.

Still Tennant is better for the following reasons.

1/ He saved the day more often: Eccelston's Doctor saves the day in just two stories in his first year. He's fucking useless! You get people trying to justify this as a good thing, but really to me it just goes to show how little RTD cared for the character and was more interested in writing for Rose. Tennant whilst still undermined at certain points, at least felt like the hero in his own show.

2/ Tennant was better at comedy: Whilst the comedy could feel forced with Tennant like the ALLONSY, he still at least felt more comfortable being silly. Eccelston by his own admission struggled with the lighter bits, and it showed. Look at the bit where he's laughing at the Moxx of Balhoon. It looks so forced its painful.

3/ Tennant had a better costume: Again neithers costume was great, but at least Tennant had a bit of flamboyance to it. It was just too modern. Eccelston however looked like a pound shop version of Spike from Buffy.

4/ Tennant was in better stories: Okay he was there longer, but TBH I don't think the Eccelston season holds up at all. I don't get the hype for it. You get guys like 5 Who Fans calling it a "lightening in a bottle series." Have standards slipped so far?

Its sub Buffy/Xena stuff done about ten years later. Its dated horribly with its references to Trinny and Suzannah, its got some of the stupidest moments like farting aliens, a plastic surgery leaf woman, and worst of all the Anne Droid. Pre Missy I thought the Anne Droid and Big Brother in space were the stupidest things I'd ever seen in DW.

The only area were Eccelston was better than Tennant was that he had a less hypocritical moral code, but other than that, he has all the problems of Tennant but is more useless and in generally crappier stories.

burrunjor wrote:David Tennant by a country mile. I'm not keen on either. Both are excellent actors, but neither were natural choices for the Doctor TBH. Eccelston struggles to be eccentric, whilst Tennant is too much of a conventional leading man. The Doctor IMO should be played by an eccentric character actor.

Still Tennant is better for the following reasons.

1/ He saved the day more often: Eccelston's Doctor saves the day in just two stories in his first year. He's fucking useless! You get people trying to justify this as a good thing, but really to me it just goes to show how little RTD cared for the character and was more interested in writing for Rose. Tennant whilst still undermined at certain points, at least felt like the hero in his own show.

2/ Tennant was better at comedy: Whilst the comedy could feel forced with Tennant like the ALLONSY, he still at least felt more comfortable being silly. Eccelston by his own admission struggled with the lighter bits, and it showed. Look at the bit where he's laughing at the Moxx of Balhoon. It looks so forced its painful.

3/ Tennant had a better costume: Again neithers costume was great, but at least Tennant had a bit of flamboyance to it. It was just too modern. Eccelston however looked like a pound shop version of Spike from Buffy.

4/ Tennant was in better stories: Okay he was there longer, but TBH I don't think the Eccelston season holds up at all. I don't get the hype for it. You get guys like 5 Who Fans calling it a "lightening in a bottle series." Have standards slipped so far?

Its sub Buffy/Xena stuff done about ten years later. Its dated horribly with its references to Trinny and Suzannah, its got some of the stupidest moments like farting aliens, a plastic surgery leaf woman, and worst of all the Anne Droid. Pre Missy I thought the Anne Droid and Big Brother in space were the stupidest things I'd ever seen in DW.

The only area were Eccelston was better than Tennant was that he had a less hypocritical moral code, but other than that, he has all the problems of Tennant but is more useless and in generally crappier stories.

Christ- I think I regret my vote now. Series 1 is fucking awful in retrospect, as I’ve referred to quite a few times in other threads, and it has dated horrifically (although I’d argue that the entire Davies era has). Eccleston is awful during the comedy scenes- instead of preserving any sense of natural comedy timing, he just gurns his way through them like a buffoon. Although I find Tennant’s comedy acting in New Earth to be even more unbearable, personally. Though Eccleston’s acting towards the end of Dalek is fucking awful as well, and during the ‘I think you need a Doctor’ scene in POTW. I don’t like either of their costumes, but Eccleston’s is admittedly worse, given how completely distant from the character it is. And your point concerning Eccleston’s sheer ineptitude when it comes to saving the day hadn’t occurred to me until you mentioned it. I still think series 2 is worse, and I think that Tennant’s characterisation is painful in its inconsistency, but I can’t deny that your argument has some serious merit behind it.

Eccleston. Neither is very much like the Doctor, but Eccleston's a better actor by miles than Tennant, and has way more presence and gravitas on screen.
Tennant just gets on my tits more all the time.

Tennant:  the lesser of two evils.

DT annoyed me immensely, especially towards the end but Eccelston is really not my idea of what the Doctor should be, both in personality and appearance. A gurning, galumphing Northern skin-head in a leather jacket - the most miscast of Doctors - what were they thinking?

Kaijuko wrote:Tennant:  the lesser of two evils.

DT annoyed me immensely, especially towards the end but Eccelstone is really not my idea of what the Doctor should be, both in personality and appearance. A gurning, galumphing Northern skin-head in a leather jacket - the most miscast of Doctors - what were they thinking?

They were just casting their friend. Really that's how most of the New Who Doctors were cast.

Eccelston, Tennant, Capaldi, Pisstaker. All good friends with the producer before hand. Of course sometimes hiring someone you know can be good. Delgado for instance was a friend of Barry Letts and Jon Pertwee, and the role was more or less written for him.

Still I feel this is happening far too often in New Who. Most of the classic era Doctors, bar Davison and C Baker were cast simply because the producers thought they would be excellent for the role. (Obvs JNT still thought they would be good, but I'm just singling them out because they knew him before hand.)

Nowadays however everything in New Who, from choosing the next Doctor to the next producer is just "I'll get my pal that I worked with before." There's never a "lets go see who this Tom Baker bloke is and if he'd be right for it" anymore.

burrunjor wrote:

Kaijuko wrote:Tennant:  the lesser of two evils.

DT annoyed me immensely, especially towards the end but Eccelstone is really not my idea of what the Doctor should be, both in personality and appearance. A gurning, galumphing Northern skin-head in a leather jacket - the most miscast of Doctors - what were they thinking?

They were just casting their friend. Really that's how most of the New Who Doctors were cast.

Eccelston, Tennant, Capaldi, Pisstaker. All good friends with the producer before hand. Of course sometimes hiring someone you know can be good. Delgado for instance was a friend of Barry Letts and Jon Pertwee, and the role was more or less written for him.

Still I feel this is happening far too often in New Who. Most of the classic era Doctors, bar Davison and C Baker were cast simply because the producers thought they would be excellent for the role. (Obvs JNT still thought they would be good, but I'm just singling them out because they knew him before hand.)

Nowadays however everything in New Who, from choosing the next Doctor to the next producer is just "I'll get my pal that I worked with before." There's never a "lets go see who this Tom Baker bloke is and if he'd be right for it" anymore.

I don't mind people casting their mates although principles of equity might favour a selection process based on merit - especially in a tax funded organisation like the BBC. For me thats secondary and its more a question of what the show runner then gives them to say and act out. I would have been happy with Tenant in the role if the scripts / stories / characterisation had been totally different. Tenant played the Doctor in bonkers mode because that is what RTD wanted and instructed to be done. Had he recruited on merit we would have still got the same crappy stories and characterisations because that is what RTD would have told them to do.

Bernard Marx wrote:

burrunjor wrote:David Tennant by a country mile. I'm not keen on either. Both are excellent actors, but neither were natural choices for the Doctor TBH. Eccelston struggles to be eccentric, whilst Tennant is too much of a conventional leading man. The Doctor IMO should be played by an eccentric character actor.

Still Tennant is better for the following reasons.

1/ He saved the day more often: Eccelston's Doctor saves the day in just two stories in his first year. He's fucking useless! You get people trying to justify this as a good thing, but really to me it just goes to show how little RTD cared for the character and was more interested in writing for Rose. Tennant whilst still undermined at certain points, at least felt like the hero in his own show.

2/ Tennant was better at comedy: Whilst the comedy could feel forced with Tennant like the ALLONSY, he still at least felt more comfortable being silly. Eccelston by his own admission struggled with the lighter bits, and it showed. Look at the bit where he's laughing at the Moxx of Balhoon. It looks so forced its painful.

3/ Tennant had a better costume: Again neithers costume was great, but at least Tennant had a bit of flamboyance to it. It was just too modern. Eccelston however looked like a pound shop version of Spike from Buffy.

4/ Tennant was in better stories: Okay he was there longer, but TBH I don't think the Eccelston season holds up at all. I don't get the hype for it. You get guys like 5 Who Fans calling it a "lightening in a bottle series." Have standards slipped so far?

Its sub Buffy/Xena stuff done about ten years later. Its dated horribly with its references to Trinny and Suzannah, its got some of the stupidest moments like farting aliens, a plastic surgery leaf woman, and worst of all the Anne Droid. Pre Missy I thought the Anne Droid and Big Brother in space were the stupidest things I'd ever seen in DW.

The only area were Eccelston was better than Tennant was that he had a less hypocritical moral code, but other than that, he has all the problems of Tennant but is more useless and in generally crappier stories.

Christ- I think I regret my vote now. Series 1 is fucking awful in retrospect, as I’ve referred to quite a few times in other threads, and it has dated horrifically (although I’d argue that the entire Davies era has). Eccleston is awful during the comedy scenes- instead of preserving any sense of natural comedy timing, he just gurns his way through them like a buffoon. Although I find Tennant’s comedy acting in New Earth to be even more unbearable, personally. Though Eccleston’s acting towards the end of Dalek is fucking awful as well, and during the ‘I think you need a Doctor’ scene in POTW. I don’t like either of their costumes, but Eccleston’s is admittedly worse, given how completely distant from the character it is. And your point concerning Eccleston’s sheer ineptitude when it comes to saving the day hadn’t occurred to me until you mentioned it. I still think series 2 is worse, and I think that Tennant’s characterisation is painful in its inconsistency, but I can’t deny that your argument has some serious merit behind it.

Thanks, it makes me laugh when I see people going on about Eccelston's Doctor being a hardman or a badass. He was the most useless Doctor of them all.

Also as I said all of the things that people think are so groundbreaking about his Doctor had been done before with Buffy and Angel, and Xena and Gabrielle in particular.

Xena and Gabrielle you have a sarcastic, tortured, brooding, hero who has done awful things and is now trying to make up for them. She travels about because she doesn't fit in anywhere, and she meets a young blonde woman. The young blonde has a boring life with her mother and friends and wants something exciting, so she joins Xena.

The young blonde is saved from a life of mediocrity by the brooding hero, but she also holds back her dark side and makes her a better person. Also along the way they encounter dark villains from the brooding heroes past, including a cackling archenemy who was driven mad by a traumatic event from their childhood, and who the hero feels a responsibiity to redeem.

Gee where have I heard all of that before?

Now fair enough everybody steals from everybody else. I'm not saying that its wrong in principle to emulate an earlier work. However I don't feel that New Who really did anything new with the Xena formula.

Furthermore I feel it was actually less effective when New Who did it. Eccelston wasn't as charismatic as Lucy Lawless, the Master was nowhere near as good a villain as Callisto, and it was just an awkward fit to try and turn a character once played by the Noodle Doodle Man into a sexy, badboy loner.

Yet you get all of these people like DW general, Trilbee and Five Who Fans praising the Eccelston era as being so groundbreaking, for doing all of the things that ironically Xena a female led show did literally 10 years earlier

burrunjor wrote:

Kaijuko wrote:Tennant:  the lesser of two evils.

DT annoyed me immensely, especially towards the end but Eccelstone is really not my idea of what the Doctor should be, both in personality and appearance. A gurning, galumphing Northern skin-head in a leather jacket - the most miscast of Doctors - what were they thinking?

They were just casting their friend. Really that's how most of the New Who Doctors were cast.

Eccelston, Tennant, Capaldi, Pisstaker. All good friends with the producer before hand. Of course sometimes hiring someone you know can be good. Delgado for instance was a friend of Barry Letts and Jon Pertwee, and the role was more or less written for him.

Still I feel this is happening far too often in New Who. Most of the classic era Doctors, bar Davison and C Baker were cast simply because the producers thought they would be excellent for the role. (Obvs JNT still thought they would be good, but I'm just singling them out because they knew him before hand.)

Nowadays however everything in New Who, from choosing the next Doctor to the next producer is just "I'll get my pal that I worked with before." There's never a "lets go see who this Tom Baker bloke is and if he'd be right for it" anymore.

'Jobs for the boys' (and girls, in this case).