Whose worse Jodie's Doctor or Missy?

The two Demons of Doctor Who LOL.

It's less broadly substantial for the Master, an occasional villain, to be changed beyond recognition than the Doctor, a 50+ year protagonist: so, the latter.

That said - Missy was essentially the 'spark' that led to Jodie's Doctor. If we're being consequentialist I'd go Missy: it was the beginning of NuWho's path to the unredeemable. Jodie might actually have a positive consequence if the show ends up cancelled.

In some ways I wouldn't have had a big problem with the Master becoming Missy. The changing gender of the Master could have been a creepy concept if it had been used to trick the Doctor and the viewers, and been played very differently to the camp Missy Poppins it turned out to be. This is a character who we know has stopped at nothing to further their existence, after all. Unfortunately the BBC then seemed to become obsessed with the idea that changing a (preferably white) male role into a (preferably non-white) female role would give it extra publicity and kudos, so we got that crap with the General.

The problem that Jodie has proven, for me, is that to pull off such a major change in a long-running show you've got to have a) a program that's at a peak when it come to dialogue, direction and theme, and b) a top-drawer actor/actress, and right now Nu-Who is at a level where the Doctor is nigh-on unwatchable, Bradley 'Chase' Walsh is generally the strongest performer in it and the writing is just a series of PC lectures aimed at children.

As shit as Missy was, I agree with Tiberius that nothing can be worse than fundamentally ruining your lead character. I can watch, say, Extremis, and pretend Missy is just some wicked Time Lady the Doctor knows of old. There's no way around the horror of what they've done to the Doctor.

Jodie's Doctor. The character was born out of hatred and spite for the people that actually care for the series. The sole reason she exists is to alienate the hardcore classic fanbase and make Doctor Who more accessible to the SJW groups. That's unforgivable.

Commander Maxil wrote:Jodie's Doctor. The character was born out of hatred and spite for the people that actually care for the series. The sole reason she exists is to alienate the hardcore classic fanbase and make Doctor Who more accessible to the SJW groups. That's unforgivable.

True, but Missy was created for the exact same reasons.

Jodie.

I'm going purely by performance.

Love or hate Missy, you can't deny that Gomez is the superior actor.

Boofer wrote:Jodie.

I'm going purely by performance.

Love or hate Missy, you can't deny that Gomez is the superior actor.

Oh absolutely. If I was a big shot director, ironically Michelle Gomez is one of the actors I'd cast in just about everything alongside Robbie Kay, Ingrid Oliver, Robert Carlyle, Dana Delorenzo etc.

I just think Missy's character was worse, but again its not like Jodie's Doctor is well written in any way shape of form either.

"Don't shoot a spider that's inhumane. Its much better to let his body weight crush him to death slowly or lock him in a room with no food and water where he'll probably end up eating his siblings."

Even little lines like this "I'm the Doctor when people ask me for help I never refuse". So what if Hitler needed help then? The KKK? Jack the Ripper?

TiberiusDidNothingWrong wrote:That said - Missy was essentially the 'spark' that led to Jodie's Doctor. If we're being consequentialist I'd go Missy: it was the beginning of NuWho's path to the unredeemable. Jodie might actually have a positive consequence if the show ends up cancelled.

I agree with this.

Personally, I don't know which one is worse because I don't watch it anymore.

Missy and "Death In Heaven" was the beginning of my turn-off from the programme however, The gender change for the Master I put down to either, it being The Rani in cognito or the Master using alien tech to disguise himself such as a chameleon arch, the character was still fucking annoying however, particularly during the subsequent The Magician's Apprentice / The Witch's Familiar.

I subsequently found my interest rapidly declining during Series 9 and then Hell Bent hit which completely fucked up the whole concept of the Time Lords - this was a major alarm bell indication and give away of what was coming next...

Although my interest had hugely declined, I tuned into Capaldi's final series and to some extent enjoyed it more than his first and second series, it still had major problems with the writing, but the character of Bill made for a less annoying and more believable character than Clara, but it was obvious that the writing was on the wall for the series and that it was about to be completely ruined beyond all redemption, particularly given Capaldi's  shit speech to Bill in "World Enough And Time / The Doctor Falls" about gender-fluidity.

I tuned into Capaldi's last episode, the insulting "Twice Upon A Time" just to see the final nail put in the coffin and the death of an institution, however I wish some fan edit would come along of ""World Enough And Time / The Doctor Falls" where the Doctor actually dies and doesn't regenerate - it would've made a far more fitting end conclusion to the character and the programme rather than the re-imaging parody spin-off it's become.

I've had no inclination to watch since, NuWho has done very little but consistently insult the intelligence and loyalty of Classic Series fans over the course of the last 13 years, but "Twice Upon a Time" was the complete and utter slap in the face which was enough to completely disconnect and disengage from the programme for me personally.

Chibnall can fuck off, he is a Michael Grade sympathiser and it's cunts like him who lined up to give the programme and production team a kick in back in 1986 for situations outside their control which caused the programme to be cancelled in the first place.

I hope sweet karma eventually hits his bullshit aberration he's farted out and the whole thing suffers an agonising demise.

Rob Filth wrote:[ "Twice Upon a Time" was the complete and utter slap in the face which was enough to completely disconnect and disengage from the programme for me personally.

.

Completely agree with that. If the gender bending bollocks wasn't enough of a jump the shark, the complete trashing of the 1st Doctor for PC brownie points and "comedy" was the very final straw in the whole haystack of bullshit that is New Who. There's no coming back from that.

burrunjor wrote:

Commander Maxil wrote:Jodie's Doctor. The character was born out of hatred and spite for the people that actually care for the series. The sole reason she exists is to alienate the hardcore classic fanbase and make Doctor Who more accessible to the SJW groups. That's unforgivable.

True, but Missy was created for the exact same reasons.

I agree, but at least Missy has a character (whether you like it or not). JW's Doctor is a blank canvas - there's nothing there to suggest the Doctor, other than a few Tennant-ish ticks and half-arsed, copied mannerisms. In fact, Whittaker's far more like the Doctor's companion than the Doctor him/herself and appears utterly lost in a team of four and comes across as a guest in her own show.  After enduring the last five episodes, I've come to the conclusion that the very idea of a female Doctor is essentially wrong and unworkable and was probably only done to pander to indignant minorities and also for the BBC to appear progressive, edgy and 'right on'.

I generally like Michelle Gomez's portrayal of the character - being the latest incarnation of the Master is the worst thing about her. It was unnecessary and making her just another Timelord gone bad would have been preferable (but Moffat needed to push the whole Timelord gender change idea, so...).

Anyway, I find MG funnier and sexier than JW.