At what point did you realize Nuwho is not all that?

Vulnavia wrote:and was unable to envision how it could possibly work in the modern age;

Would you care to elaborate on this? With some decent writers at the helm that actually know the history of the show and respect the lore, I see no logical reason why Doctor Who couldn't possibly work in the modern age.

DeadManRising wrote:

Vulnavia wrote:and was unable to envision how it could possibly work in the modern age;

Would you care to elaborate on this? With some decent writers at the helm that actually know the history of the show and respect the lore, I see no logical reason why Doctor Who couldn't possibly work in the modern age.  

This was my perspective in 2003, as I essentially regarded the series as a whimsical concept which was very much a product of its time, and had actually run well beyond its course by the time it it was axed. I should add that I came t re-evaluate/appraise the show as a whole in 2009, and have subsequently been more charitable towards the later years of the original run. Slightly.

Vulnavia wrote:that ugly logo which looked as though it had been dashed off in some bored graphic design student's lunch hour.

Yes! It looks like an absolute turd. And people complained about the McCoy logo which I think looked quite retro and cool. But yeah, this is truly repulsive:



I like how they tried to make it better by adding fire in series 3 but it still looked like a crock of shite.



People get paid for rubbish like this.

Yeah, that logo was rather ugly and incredibly bare-bones.

I could literally make a better logo than that in Photoshop in less than 10 minutes.

CommanderMaxil1983 wrote:
People get paid for rubbish like this.

And win awards...

I always thought it resembled a Hackney Cab 'TAXI' sign. Every single design prior to this placed the 'Doctor' above the 'Who', because it makes aesthetic (and titular) sense; that thing is a compositional disaster to boot. I wouldn't give a monkey's about a logo if it was merely a substandard brand identity for something otherwise brilliant; as it stands it just seems highly symbolic of how wide of the mark everything else was/is.

DeadManRising wrote:Yeah, that logo was rather ugly and incredibly bare-bones.

I could literally make a better logo than that in Photoshop in less than 10 minutes.

I thought exactly the same when it was unveiled. I couldn't quite believe it, to be honest. Davies had bigged it up prior to this as being iconic and giving him goosebumps and what have you. One might be forgiven for anticipating something worthy of Bernard Lodge himself.

I always liked this logo best myself. It's sleek, simple, and it just screams Classic Who.

This for me:



The only one from the original run I could do without is that from the McCoy era, which has always looked to me more like a confectionary wrapper than a Doctor Who logo. Having said that, it nonetheless takes a massive dump all over the Noo-Hoo ones.

I have a theory that RTD's relaunched show got an easier ride because the TV Movie was Dr Who's previous outing, not s26. Whatever failings Rose has it was praised by the media at the time for allegedly reclaiming the 'Britishness' of the show after the 'Americanised' TVM. Agree or disagree?

Disagree. Fans seem to forget that the modern series is obsessed with America. Funny how series 1 retains the SAME elements of that television movie, out of place romance and all. It didn't "reclaim" anything and the media and reviewers have been known to be an arse-licking bunch when it comes to Nuwho.

The sight of a Doctor in jeans addled my ding-a-ling. JEANS!!! Imagine Pertwee in flares...
And when those aliens violently and over the toply broke wind I dropped my bone china cup and saucer on the floor.

Mott1 wrote:I have a theory that RTD's relaunched show got an easier ride because the TV Movie was Dr Who's previous outing, not s26. Whatever failings Rose has it was praised by the media at the time for allegedly reclaiming the 'Britishness' of the show after the 'Americanised' TVM. Agree or disagree?

Disagree. I really don't see how NuWho "reclaimed" anything about the original show. Especially when you consider that NuWho is far more closer in style to the TV Movie than the original series.

There was some kind of series preview either the week before the first episode aired, or immediately prior to it (I don't recall exactly which, as I have tried desperately to expunge it from my memory) in which Davies said something about the US TVM containing some of the finest moments of Doctor Who ever (or his favourites, at least) whilst the McGann snogging clip played. The item concluded with a compilation of excerpts from the coming episodes set to the pitifully incongruous strains of 'Run' by the execrable Snow Patrol. It was quite perfect in its way.

Vulnavia wrote:There was some kind of series preview either the week before the first episode aired, or immediately prior to it (I don't recall exactly which, as I have tried desperately to expunge it from my memory) in which Davies said something about the US TVM containing some of the finest moments of Doctor Who ever (or his favourites, at least) whilst the McGann snogging clip played. The item concluded with a compilation of excerpts from the coming episodes set to the pitifully incongruous strains of 'Run' by the execrable Snow Patrol. It was quite perfect in its way.

Good God - I've been haunted by Snow Patrol's naffness today too!

Though I'm a fan of the 'no romance' of the JNT era I wouldn't have been completely averse to the Doctor snogging someone in the TVM or new series, but it seems ridiculous that McGann snogs someone he's just met for no reason before immediately pissing off in the TARDIS again. Perhaps it was regeneration trauma...

Mott1 wrote: it seems ridiculous that McGann snogs someone he's just met for no reason.

No reason? He just remembered who he was and was overtaken by a feeling of pure ecstasy and I believe she asked him to kiss her the second time. The third kiss was a special way of saying goodbye as they probably weren't going to encounter each other again.

Pah!
Patrick Troughton would have expressed his joy in a properly Doctorly manner by clapping his hands together and giving her a double handshake.

CommanderMaxil1983 wrote:

Mott1 wrote: it seems ridiculous that McGann snogs someone he's just met for no reason.

No reason? He just remembered who he was and was overtaken by a feeling of pure ecstasy and I believe she asked him to kiss her the second time. The third kiss was a special way of saying goodbye as they probably weren't going to encounter each other again.

Typically Doctor-ish behaviour, I think we can all agree. They really nailed the character there.

Vulnavia wrote:

CommanderMaxil1983 wrote:

Mott1 wrote: it seems ridiculous that McGann snogs someone he's just met for no reason.

No reason? He just remembered who he was and was overtaken by a feeling of pure ecstasy and I believe she asked him to kiss her the second time. The third kiss was a special way of saying goodbye as they probably weren't going to encounter each other again.

Typically Doctor-ish behaviour, I think we can all agree. They really nailed the character there.

I think you'll find that the creators of that movie were forced to include things like that for the benefit of the American audience. The writers nailed the character in other ways.

Yeah. Aside from the half human crap and the Doctor repeatedly snogging Grace, the TV Movie did a fairly decent job at faithfully recreating the Doctor's character. That scene in particular where the Doctor threatens to shoot himself to get the cop to give up his motorbike nailed the character really well I feel. I could TOTALLY picture some of the classic Doctors pulling a weird stunt like that.

DeadManRising wrote:Yeah. Aside from the half human crap and the Doctor repeatedly snogging Grace, the TV Movie did a fairly decent job at faithfully recreating the Doctor's character. That scene in particular where the Doctor threatens to shoot himself to get the cop to give up his motorbike nailed the character really well I feel. I could TOTALLY picture some of the classic Doctors pulling a weird stunt like that.

The great manipulator 7th Doctor would do that.

Besides, he needed the motorbike to get away from the Master.

Uh... I wasn't actually being sarcastic there. I genuinely meant everything I said above. That scene where the Doctor threatened to shoot himself instead of the cop was a very Doctorly moment that nailed the character really well.

Apologies for unintentionally coming off that way.

DeadManRising wrote:Uh... I wasn't actually being sarcastic there. I genuinely meant everything I said above. That scene where the Doctor threatened to shoot himself instead of the cop was a very Doctorly moment that nailed the character really well.    

Apologies for unintentionally coming off that way.  

Sorry. I admit I thought you being sarcastic. Vulnavia was with his "Typically Doctor-ish behaviour, I think we can all agree. They really nailed the character there." comment, though.

Again, sorry for misinterpreting your comment.

Don't be sorry, bro. It was my fault really. I really should use emoticons more often to avoid any more unnecessary confusion in the future.

I think you'll find that the creators of that movie were forced to include things like that for the benefit of the American audience. The writers nailed the character in other ways.

Yes that's the thing about the 96 movie. All of the crap they included like Doctor snogging, the half human bit etc, was put in at the studio's behest to appeal to American audiences.

They had no choice, but even with those horrible constraints they did a not bad job with the Doctor and the Masters characters.

The Doctors costume and look is brilliant, he's for the most part an aristocratic, eccentric gentlemanly hero, he isn't the ONCOMING STORM, and Paul McGann though not a favourite of mine was a good enough choice and fitted in well with his predecessors.

Roberts Master meanwhile I don't get the hate for? Yes he is a bit hammy, but so what, so was Ainley.

He follows the Masters template perfectly. He hates the Doctor, he has no regenerations left (really glad they continued that story arc from Classic Who. IMO that made the Master far more interesting and scary.) He is a pitiful coward, he is hypnotic, and we see how manipulative is the way he tricks Chang and then disposes of him. Reminded me of Kassia, Trenchard, Goth etc in that respect.

Anybody who says Roberts is the worst and then PRAISES Missy as being like Delgado is more full of shit than a constipated blue whale.

The only major flaw aside from the half human bit you could level at the movie was that it didn't do anything new.

Its plot is pretty much a remake of The Deadly Assassin but with the action moved to earth.

Lets see. The Master is on his last life, and his body is literally rotting away to nothing. He wants to open the eye of harmony which will give him more lives, but exterminate a whole planet, and he doesn't care.

Its just kind of an inferior Deadly Assassin. Still I'd take an inferior retread of what came before than something like Death in Heaven which smashes everything to bits.

burrunjor wrote:

I think you'll find that the creators of that movie were forced to include things like that for the benefit of the American audience. The writers nailed the character in other ways.

The only major flaw aside from the half human bit you could level at the movie was that it didn't do anything new.

I can name some more flaws off the top of my head.  

- The Master turning into some kind of worm at the start of the movie was pretty campy and stupid. Although nowhere near as bad as turning into a cannibal with electrical powers like he did in The End of Time.

- Why would the Daleks of all things conduct a trial of any kind? And why would they allow the Doctor, their greatest enemy, to come to Skaro to pick up the Master's remains and then transport his remains to Gallifrey?

- Furthermore, why would the Doctor even agree to transport the Master's remains in the first place?

Then you also have all that stupid crap with the Doctor snogging Grace, not to mention the half human shit. I do like the 1996 movie, but I can also easily understand why so many people hate it.