Tides are Changing for Marvel?

Reviewers have been sucking Marvel's dick over whatever they pump out since the barely average Avengers movie in 2012. Now Marvel's Iron Fist (coming to Netflix on the 17th) is being torn apart by critics.

"It takes forever for anything to happen on “Iron Fist,” and as it stumbles along, the uninspired production design, unexceptional cinematography, and painful dialogue fail to distract the viewer from the overall lack of depth, detail, or momentum."

"Good luck, bingers: Getting through two episodes was a challenge."

"I’m not surprised that Iron Fist isn’t a comedy. I’m surprised that it’s so bad. And it is laughably bad."

"I’d forgive the bland expository parts in the same way I do for a lot of action shows and movies. And if Finn Jones couldn’t fight but was otherwise a riveting screen presence blessed with sparkling dialogue and a compelling character arc, I’d get past the alleged living weapon’s lame physical prowess. But when neither part works at all, why would anyone but the most devout, masochistic Marvel completist want to watch?"

Starting this year, Marvel alone will be doing 3 movies 4 tv shows a year. Do you think the bubble is about to burst? It'd be bad enough if they were the only ones in the superhero market, but with DC and Fox putting out films and shows too, surely people must be growing tired of it all. Will we start to see the movies also get less glowing reviews if they continue to follow the same fast food formula?

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/iron-fist-season-1-episode-netflix-review-finn-jones-danny-rand-a7618121.html
http://www.denofgeek.com/uk/tv/marvels-iron-fist/47782/marvels-iron-fist-spoiler-free-review
http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-03-08/marvels-iron-fist-a-second-rate-daredevil-that-matches-the-low-expectations
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/on-demand/0/marvels-iron-fist-slammed-critics-star-quits-twitter-racism/

Of course, some of the negative aspects of reviews have been that a white character is being played by a white actor, because these are the times we live in. I'm sure they'd be much happier if the show had an asian actor play a martial art stereotype, because that's all they're good at.

With that and Samuel L. Jackson recently criticising Get Out for using a black English actor instead of a black American, I add a second question for the thread. Should social politics have any place when it comes to reviewing the quality of a piece of entertainment?

I think they should all fuck off and die, that's my opinion of these sorts of people.

Marvel have been stinking the joint out for ages in most areas, not just movies. DC are trouncing them in comics right now, and DC's tv shows while pure cheese are way better than the so-called edgy "adult" Netshit shows. Last one I liked was Jessica Jones, and that may be just because of Tennant bias.

There's only about five finger's worth of Marvel movies I like.

I stopped watching Arrow after season 3 (though I heard the current season is pretty good) and dropped Legends of Tomorrow late-season 1. I only saw the first Flash crossover episode of Supergirl and that was enough for me. The Flash also wore me down a little bit in season 2, too many repeated plots and "twists" from season 1 and the Zoom arc got old pretty fast. Luckily season 3 has been fun so far.

It's weird that DC can do so well in the comics, tv shows (I don't like most of them but there's no denying they're successful) and animated movies and none of it has been able to be translated to their horrible cinematic universe, It's got to be WB getting in the way. And as much as I disliked Man of Steel and Batman vs. Superman, I have to admire that they at least try to do something different.

Marvel movies have been putting out cookie cutter movies since the Avengers. Most following the same formula and playing it so safe that their inoffensiveness has become offensive. I enjoyed the phase 1 solo movies enough, the first Iron Man was the only one that I'd praise and that was a lightning in a bottle scenario, but they were all fun to watch at least once and all had their own look and feel while building to something bigger.

I liked the Winter Soldier and Guardians of the Galaxy, even if they still fell for the same MCU trap of having weak villains. They were also the only ones that did something slightly different with Winter Soldier going for an old school political thriller feel and Guardians being a colourful space opera. Sadly Civil War was more of the same for Marvel but Guardians 2 looks good.

The worst part about Marvel is that their universe isn't even well built. The Avengers movies practically ignore the solo movies so they can maximise profit from casual audiences, making the solo movies "build up" pointless. For all their talk about everything being canon to the MCU, the head of Marvel studios and Marvel TV had a falling out and refuse to talk to each other to the point that they're making incompetent mistakes such as casting the same actress in different roles at the same time without either party knowing it.

Agents of SHIELD is the only Marvel thing I enjoy these days and that barely even pretends it's still part of the MCU anymore. They're telling bigger stories than the movies do too, from millions of people turning to stone and shattering or becoming inhumans to an inhuman god trying to build an army to wipe out the planet and claim it as his own. The Ghost Rider arc this season was great. None of this got mentioned in the movies, not even Civil War where the central part of the plot was the danger of powered people.

Daredevil was didn't deserve the hype it got, Jessica Jones was a weak show carried by an interesting villain played brilliantly by Tennant, I barely got through half of Luke Cage which didn't deserve the praise and Iron Fist looks shit, to the point that even critics aren't doing their "it's Marvel so it must be a winner" routine.

It's only a matter of time before their shared universe comes crashing down on them and I can't wait.

Fox's X-Men franchise is a mess and Deadpool was awful, if the Deadpool 2 teaser was anything to go by I'll be skipping it. DCs universe is shit but at least they seem to be doubling down on the continuity, I never bothered with it but didn't Suicide Squad directly follow on from the end of BvS?

Anyway I'm going end this little rant now and have lunch.

Great thread.

I have always preferred DC to Marvel. I do love Spider-Man and the X-Men. Those two I think can hold their own with any DC hero, but by and large DC kicks their asses IMO.

The DC Animated Universe is I think the best comic book adaptation in either live action or animation. Hamill's Joker is one of the greatest villains of all time.

After the DCAU I'd rate the Arrowverse as the next tv adaptation of DC and Marvel. I love the Flash show, though I agree the Zoom story arc was a bit too much of a repeat of Thawne, I still love the show because of the characters and the actors. Its rare to have a show where all the cast are great. I'd say my faves are Caitlin who is unbelievably cute (I love nerdy girls. Have I mentioned that before?) and Harrison Wells who is the Avon of the show.

As for the films I'd say the X-Men film series is in all fairness the best film series, followed by the two Batman film series.
The MCU is terrible IMO. I only like one MCU film, Guardians of the Galaxy. I can't stand Robert Downey JR. God he's even smugger than Jenna Coleman.

As for identity politics being taken into consideration when making these things, well personally I think identity politics is poison to any kind of creativity.

Look at Doctor Who. Its been completely destroyed by this crap. Missy, Clara taking over the show, anti men jokes, the possibility of Olivia Coleman as the Doctor! All of this crap came about because of feminists and SJW's whining and Moff being spineless and pandering to them. (Though to be fair he is not alone in that)

Its annoying though because when you try and say that you get told "you just don't want wimminz in your favorite show" which is of course bollocks.

Big difference between having women and minorities in your show, or even as the leads and something that's SJW themed. Look at Xena, that was a female dominated show and everybody loved it. Ditto Buffy and Charmed.

Compare those three to Ghostbusters 2016 which is an SJW film and you'll see the difference LOL.

burrunjor wrote:Look at Xena, that was a female dominated show and everybody loved it. Ditto Buffy and Charmed.

It'll be interesting to see how the Charmed reboot turns out, if it happens that is, last I heard it was delayed until next year. The drama will be set in 1976 instead of in present day. Jane the Virgin showrunner Jennie Snyder Urman and the CW show's writers, Jessica O'Toole and Amy Rardin, are behind the proposed reboot.

About the SHIELD and MCU disconnect...I think it's largely due to the real life divorce between the movie studios and the tv department, which is well documented, and what ultimately led to the Inhumans movie being transistioned into a developing tv show. Marvel are trying to make the Inhumans their new X-Men-type franchise, though it does'nt seem to be translating too well in terms of comics sales or receptions. This is largely due to the readership 'catching wise' to something Marvel is force-feeding them and rebelling against the inititive

Adam Ant Driver wrote:

burrunjor wrote:Look at Xena, that was a female dominated show and everybody loved it. Ditto Buffy and Charmed.

It'll be interesting to see how the Charmed reboot turns out, if it happens that is, last I heard it was delayed until next year. The drama will be set in 1976 instead of in present day. Jane the Virgin showrunner Jennie Snyder Urman and the CW show's writers, Jessica O'Toole and Amy Rardin, are behind the proposed reboot.

I think of all the proposed reboots, the Xena one has the most potential.

The character of Xena can be interpreted in many different ways. Some episodes are the most ridiculously camp you'll ever see, some however like the Callisto episodes are really dark. Some episodes are historicals, others are total fantasy

Thus a remake could be anything really. It could be a silly, light hearted frothy show that's just good Saturday night fun. Or it could be a entirely serious, gritty and dark show. I think this would be the most successful TBH in the current climate. Or maybe it could be a historical epic, or a total fantasy show.

There's a lot you can do with that character. Her complex backstory, vague but historical settings, and her rogues gallery (particularly Callisto) I think allow for a lot of scope in not just this remake, but many more.

I think Xena is like a female Batman in that respect. He can be interpreted in lots of different ways. Some Batman comic book stories are dark, some are camp and silly. Some stories can be total fantasy and even see him fight monsters, whilst some can be gritty crime stories that see him fight ordinary mobsters.

Thus some Batman adaptations can be serious, gritty, crime thrillers like the Nolan movies, some are camp comedies like Adam West, some are more fantastical like the Burton films and Gotham that even has people brought back from the dead! He also obviously has a fantastic rogues gallery too, and a dramatic backstory. All of these things make Batman the most successful and TBH I think if done right Xena cold be the female Batman.

I'm not sure what value a Charmed remake would have however? That's not to knock the original. It was a classic, but I don't know, it feels like one that was made by the actors, and kind of was a one time thing. Sure you could do a remake that was a good supernatural story, but what would separate it from every other story about people fighting monsters?

Ultimately I don't think the basic idea of Charmed is really worth remaking. It was kind of something that evolved into a classic through its actors and the dynamic of the show.

Of course if these Xena/Charmed reboots go ahead maybe we should be whiny little dickheads and demand that Xena and the Charmed ones be played by guys and bully any Xena fans who don't like it as misandirists LOL.

Charmed was little more than a thinly-veiled Buffy cash-in anyway. I couldn't even stomach it for Holly Marie Combs, and that's saying something.

Oh dear, I've just got Jessica Jones for my birthday today. Don't tell me it's shit!

iank wrote:Charmed was little more than a thinly-veiled Buffy cash-in anyway. I couldn't even stomach it for Holly Marie Combs, and that's saying something.

Oh dear, I've just got Jessica Jones for my birthday today. Don't tell me it's shit!

Charmed did take a lot from Buffy, but to be fair I think it found its own identity. Also all of these classic 90's/00's shows all took from each other too.

Ares from Xena, Spike from Buffy, and Cole from Charmed were all pretty much exactly the same character for instance. Buffy kind of grew out of Xena, then Charmed grew out of Buffy, and Supernatural grew out of Charmed in a way.

Of course if I were like Paul Cornell I'd call you a sexist for saying you don't like a show starring women. Mind you its not like Paul or any feminist actually watches any tv shows starring women anyway, as then they couldn't complain.

Holly Marie Combs was cute, but I always fancied Shannen Doherty the most of the three sisters personally.

I think most people would agree Jessica Jones is the best Marvel tv show. Also happy birthday my favourite Hive Cunt!

Aw, cheers!
I always remember HMC as Tom Skerritt's teen daughter on Picket Fences. Now she's on Pretty Little Liars... as the mom.
Man, that's depressing!

Japanese Spiderman

I watched the first episode of Iron Fist and outside of the politics, the reviewers were right. The show is shit, complete shit. I usually give a show 3 episodes before I judge it but I don't think I could stomach more episodes, there was no redeeming features in the episode. The quick fight scene in the episode was awful, the choreography, the stunt work, cinematography and direction, it was all bland and amateurish.

The characters are flat and the execution of the plot is a lesser version of Arrow. Throughout the episode I was expecting to hear the Arrow intro.

My name is Danny Rand. After fifteen years in a mysterious monastary, I have come home with only one goal: To save my city. But to do so, I can't be the playboy I once was. To honor my parents' memory, I must be someone else. I must be something else.

DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN DA DAH

Iron Fist

The first trailer for Thor 3 was released today.


I have to admit I enjoyed Thor's reaction to seeing the Hulk. I trust the director to deliver on the comedy in a way Marvel haven't yet managed and between that and the 2 little prequel skits, he's living up to my expectations. The rest of the trailer was eh.

X-Men Gold#1 is a pretty big seller now that Marvel have revealed their intent to cancel current print runs so they can remove anti-semetic messages found in the book by the artist.

I lost interest in that trailer as soon as he said "I know him from work". Yeah, fuck that "Team Thor" office humor.

It seems reviewers are finally catching on to Marvel's shit.

Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 Turns the Charm of the Original Into More Marvel Bloat

"But it’s not the weighty emotions that drag Vol. 2 down. It’s the plot that chases its own tail and the cluttered visual palette. The labored first action scene features the Guardians fighting some sort of space squid while making jokes that don’t land."

"Meanwhile, the ratio of laughs to one-liners is lower than in the first Guardians. Drax boasts of his “famously huge” turds. The raccoon, apart from a hilarious peroration on the lame nickname “Taser Face,” is an irritant. Moments of drama are regularly deflated — as in second-rate sitcoms — by lines like, “Excuse me, I gotta take a wiz.” You can almost hear the laugh track. What you hear instead are more cannibalized ‘70s hits."

Mara Reinstein of Us Weekly wrote, "For the sequel, writer-director James Gunn has doubled down on all his once-nifty novelties. Strip them away and what remains is a bloated semi-mess."

It's still getting good reviews but there is a general theme that the film has no plot and too many characters. Looking like it could be the new Thor 2 to me.

With the next Avengers movie having EVERY hero from the movies so far in it, I can't see it avoiding the bloated mess issue. That's too many characters in one film.

Guardians of the Galaxy Vol.2 also has 4 or 5 post-credit scenes rather than the standard 1 or 2.

Oh dear, I was looking forward to this, the first one is one of the only Marvel films I like (and have).

I never liked the first one...the fact this one seems worse means it's gonna be a loooooooooong Friday afternoon with a more enthusiastic friend.

The Altantic put together this piece on Marvel's collapse. They take the professional writers and editors to task for clashing with fans too.

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2017/05/the-real-reasons-for-marvel-comics-woes/527127/

Comic Con audience reportedly laughed at the new Inhumans trailer.
http://www.gamesradar.com/the-crowd-laughed-at-the-footage-oof-the-inhumans-sdcc-trailer-isnt-getting-much-love/

As Sal Buscema said in regards to the Avengers, there were "too many damned characters running about."

David Tennant will be returning for Jessica Jones season 2 so there's a chance that won't be a complete turd.