Worst reasons you've encountered for the retcons of NuWho.

Besides the whole ''cANon doESN't mAtTeR'' reason. What are the other bizarre reasons and arguments people have made for some of the worse retcons the remake series has pulled.

There are many I’ve encountered for the recent disaster of an episode:

“It doesn’t actually impact the canon at all.” Utter shite. Just because the Doctor doesn’t remember the Timeless Child, it doesn’t mean it doesn’t completely bugger up any story featuring the Time Lords. Why is he put on trial and exiled if the division wanted him to interfere anyway? If they didn’t for whatever reason, they’d have brainwashed him again anyway and interceded, so this makes no sense either way.

Why is the First Doctor an elusive and hostile figure during his early stories if he was programmed to interfere and to be a hero? If this was part of the division’s plan, surely everything related to the character is, thus making every failure on the Doctor’s part that of the division’s indirect failure due to their lack of intervention. And it renders Ian and Barbara’s roles completely redundant, thus cheapening the character’s initial development all the more.

And why is the Ruth Doctor’s Tardis a Police Box? Did the division decide that the police box design was the design the Doctor should adopt? If so, for what bloody reason did they decide that? Nothing makes any sense anymore.

“The Morbius Doctors plot hole is now rectified”- firstly, the idea that the faces we see in the midst of the mind bending contest were those of the Doctor were always implicit and never stated outright, and secondly, why doesn’t the Doctor step back and wonder what the fuck he’s just seen if they happen to be his incarnations repressed from memory? And for those who claim that he couldn’t see them: Morbius clearly could, and Sarah Jane did too, so it’s logical that he did too and brushed them aside due to not being part of his prior incarnations.

Not to mention how it directly contradicts countless other stories before or since concerning the Doctor’s regenerations “Show me the earliest Doctor”. Yeah- the Division could have helped the Doctor out during that occasion in The Three Doctors too. “I am the Doctor. The original, you might say!”

Back to the topic at hand: The production team of Morbius may have considered including Pre-Hartnell Doctors, but the overall evidence at hand implies that they are Morbius’, and at least they only dabbled with the idea as opposed to making it explicit and establishing a clear rule. People don’t seem to prefer to explore the actual context surrounding their arguments in relation to the latest episode.

“It makes perfect sense!”- How do you explain my points above, then?

“Maybe Rassilon and Omega were involved in the instillation of Time Lord Society too!”- Stop writing Chibnall’s script for him.

“It was devised by Cartmel back in the day”- Yes, and vetoed because everyone involved knew it was an awful idea. At least Cartmel and JNT came to a compromise and realised how much this would undermine the character- Cartmel’s vision concerning the Doctor was still far more implicit and ambiguous than this was in the end.

Those are the ones on the top of my head, and all reserved for this one episode.

"The show is about change."

Utter BS, of course. Any show that lasts 26 years is going to change just via necessity, but any cast changes or changes of emphasis and individual style always remained recognisably the same program, with the same recognisable lead character.

Until New Poo.

The revealed origins of River Song in Series 6 were a bad retcon.

I didn't need Amy and Rory to turn out to be her parents.

I didn't need to suddenly be introduced to their new BFF Mels who's apparently always been there, just so she can turn out to have been River Song too.

But the *worst* ever excuse I got for how badly it was handled in terms of the non-existent emotional aftermath for Amy and Rory, was the whole "well because they were best friends with their daughter in childhood, they kind of got to raise her after all."

Well.... no they didn't. They didn't stop her being a reckless troublemaker. They didn't save her from having her childhood darkened by being brainwashed by the Silence.

It was just bollocks.

Excuses for the War Doctor retcon are also what come to mind for me.

Obviously there's been worse retcons since, but this was the first time I was almost left thinking maybe this was a deal-breaker for me.

But the worst excuse for the decision was "well I could never really imagine McGann being the one the press the button anyway, so I'm glad we've learned a different Doctor did it now."

Okay, the problems I have with that excuse are the following.

We'd spent the last seven years assuming it *was* McGann who pressed the button, so why this sudden fussy need to change it long after the establishment of it?

We also could assume he didn't have a choice. And in that circumstance, why should it matter which Doctor would press it if the point is that the circumstances were forcing his hand?

The fact that the Doctor decided he needed to wait until he became a particular incarnation before pressing the button, completely takes away the urgency of the decision.

The idea they put about that McGann was too kindly and romantic to press the button, seemingly assumes that he destroyed his own people out of cruelty for the lols. No. He did it precisely because he had compassion and the desire to do the right thing. It's just in that situation, the only good thing he could do for the Universe's sake is do a terrible thing to sacrifice his people precisely for a greater good.

If it's uncomfortable to imagine McGann pressing the button, maybe that's actually the point! It should be uncomfortable.

Tanmann wrote:The revealed origins of River Song in Series 6 were a bad retcon.

I didn't need Amy and Rory to turn out to be her parents.

I didn't need to suddenly be introduced to their new BFF Mels who's apparently always been there, just so she can turn out to have been River Song too.

But the *worst* ever excuse I got for how badly it was handled in terms of the non-existent emotional aftermath for Amy and Rory, was the whole "well because they were best friends with their daughter in childhood, they kind of got to raise her after all."

Well.... no they didn't. They didn't stop her being a reckless troublemaker. They didn't save her from having her childhood darkened by being brainwashed by the Silence.

It was just bollocks.

Excuses for the War Doctor retcon are also what come to mind for me.

Obviously there's been worse retcons since, but this was the first time I was almost left thinking maybe this was a deal-breaker for me.

But the worst excuse for the decision was "well I could never really imagine McGann being the one the press the button anyway, so I'm glad we've learned a different Doctor did it now."

Okay, the problems I have with that excuse are the following.

We'd spent the last seven years assuming it *was* McGann who pressed the button, so why this sudden fussy need to change it long after the establishment of it?

We also could assume he didn't have a choice. And in that circumstance, why should it matter which Doctor would press it if the point is that the circumstances were forcing his hand?

The fact that the Doctor decided he needed to wait until he became a particular incarnation before pressing the button, completely takes away the urgency of the decision.

The idea they put about that McGann was too kindly and romantic to press the button, seemingly assumes that he destroyed his own people out of cruelty for the lols. No. He did it precisely because he had compassion and the desire to do the right thing. It's just in that situation, the only good thing he could do for the Universe's sake is do a terrible thing to sacrifice his people precisely for a greater good.

If it's uncomfortable to imagine McGann pressing the button, maybe that's actually the point! It should be uncomfortable.

Sorry -  a flippant response.

I am happy - almost relieved - to say that I don't remember a lot of this. Yes I remember John Hurt as the War Doctor but the idea that McGann consciously regenerated so he could then perform the act that ended the time war I had totally forgotten. How blessed my life had been for the last 7 or so years.

But thanks for reminding me ,,,

NuWho is fast food, not a night out of good entertainment to saviour and then remember with fondness. You eat and digest it to remove a hunger pang and then shit it out - all on the motorway as you are driving around the UK so you dont have to use your own toilet for the last bit.

Anything remotely canon in NuWho is similarly short term, for the duration of that story and maybe the season. If it makes it to the next season then its very lucky. You certainly don't mix it with your high end gourmet prepared food in a good restuarant. Classic is classic. NuWho is discrete, different, separate.

stengos wrote:NuWho is fast food, not a night out of good entertainment to saviour and then remember with fondness. You eat and digest it to remove a hunger pang and then shit it out - all on the motorway as you are driving around the UK so you dont have to use your own toilet for the last bit.

Anything remotely canon in NuWho is similarly short term, for the duration of that story and maybe the season. If it makes it to the next season then its very lucky. You certainly don't mix it with your high end gourmet prepared food in a good restuarant. Classic is classic. NuWho is discrete, different, separate.

Pretty much, sadly.

I think it took Death in Heaven for me to finally realize that, canonically, nothing matters in the show at all. And that infact it's pitched at an audience of Moffat stans who get hysterically excited by its changeability, malleability and disposability.

iank wrote:"The show is about change."

Utter BS, of course. Any show that lasts 26 years is going to change just via necessity, but any cast changes or changes of emphasis and individual style always remained recognisably the same program, with the same recognisable lead character.

Until New Poo.

Won day back in 1965 Sidney Numan said to himself "let's make a show about CHANGE!"

The rest is herstory.