How necessary was Season 18's anti-Williams backlash?

From watching the (ahem) Leisure Hive DVD special feature "A New Beginning" it was pretty clear there was a clear goal from the start from JNT and his team to make some fundamental changes and quickly get away from the style and tone of the previous era.

Namely that the show had gotten too comical, and the 4th Doctor-Romana-K9 dynamic seemed too assured to be able to wade through adventures, practically unaffected.

The attitude infact seemed to be that the previous regime was such a disaster or had so cheapened and damaged the show's public image, that it had been necessary to start again almost from scratch.

I should say in the interests of fairness that judging from DWM interviews with Bidmead, it was also largely the BBC and Barry Letts who encouraged this attitude of wanting to make the show serious business again, so some of it at least seemed done by BBC instruction.

I had my issues with this backlash, of course. I very much liked City of Death. I didn't like The Leisure Hive. I don't think any of the new Season 18 companions were that likable, let alone a worthy replacement for Romana. And I do think unfortunately this notion of having to start from scratch is unfortunately where Ian Levine (probably the last person you should want to be made part of the new foundations) seemed to be trusted to have his suggestions and pointers for what would please fans like him be taken seriously.

I think the show should take itself somewhat seriously, as that's what gives the show a certain reverence. One of the great things about Genesis of the Daleks and Planet of Evil is that even when Tom is being the comedian, there is a real unnerving horror atmosphere where you almost can't trust the levity.

It was nice in some ways for the show to get back to that in stories like State of Decay, Enlightenment, The Five Doctors and Revelation of the Daleks.

However I do think the Davison era sometimes took itself too seriously to the point of being downright obnoxious, and making its heroes come off as even berzerk at times. A lot of truth can be said in jest, but taking out a lot of the jest removes a lot of the nuance, and so much of the era seemed very painfully nuance-free and po-faced.

In any case a story like Robots of Death is considered a classic to many fans, but by the more serious standards of the new regime it wouldn't have passed, even though a fair share of nadirs did.

But all that's ahead.

How true was it that the show was in trouble the year before and in need of a revamp? For that matter, what do you believe really would've happened if things had carried on as normal?

Were the changes of Season 18 right, or were they too much too soon? Were you glad to see the old style go or did the baby get thrown out with the bathwater for you?

I think the changes JNT implemented were very necessary. I was very fed up after 3 years of Williams - especially the last two. Season 18 reinvigorated my interest in both the show and Tom and increased my appreciation of Lalla. She didnt shine until JNT arrived and Tom seemed to start acting again.

I think backlash may be a bit harsh. Every new production team has its own vision of how they see the show should develop, recreating it in their own image so to speak. Williams had his, JNT had his. Williams wanted to emphasise humour, JNT didn't and in my view Hinchcliffee and Letts didn't either so Williams was out of step with the recent history of the show.

Another thing is i didn't find the show that funny under Williams. Except in the sense that Rentaghost or any number of kids shows from that time were funny and i thought the show should be better than that.

Williams' era wasn't without merit. Some bits were okay. And in retrospect it stands up better than it did when first broadcast - but i still have reservations about it. And the standout bits tend to be in the very early part when Holmes was still script editor. More specifically Fang Rock.

Nowadays as much as I enjoy Season's 15-17, I see Season 18 as a rather interesting experiment for me and I like most of the stories in the season bar the Leisure Hive and Logopolis.

However, as much as I enjoy it, my biggest gripe with it is that it seems to be too much of an overcorrection and can come off as completely humorless and po faced. I think Season 19 did a better job of conveying a slightly more serious, played straight tone without feeling like it has a stick up its arse for the most part.

Way unnecessary.

The fact that Decay is light years ahead of the rest of the season demonstrates that, even if some sort of "course correction" was needed, it in no way needed to be as insanely severe as what happened.
Cutting out almost all humour (and warmth) was a colossal misjudgment (though I tend to blame Boring Bidmead more than JNT, the former was supposed to be the story editor).
Make it more serious again? Sure. But go the Decay route by bringing in some more horror and atmosphere. Don't just cut out all fun and replace it with dreary technobabble.
Cutting Romana and K9 in favour of the Terrible Trio and all but forcing the best Doctor ever out the door by being so controlling and draconian were pretty fucking stupid too, let's face it.

Well it was actually doctor's orders that caused Tom to leave. Contrary to popular opinion, I think JNT was probably expecting to work with Tom for a few more seasons.

I wasn't so sad to see K9 go, but they way they abused and got shot of him that season felt needlessly mean-spirited.

Tanmann wrote:Well it was actually doctor's orders that caused Tom to leave. Contrary to popular opinion, I think JNT was probably expecting to work with Tom for a few more seasons.

A popular story of Tom's leaving goes like this.

Basically whenever Tom was displeased about something during the Williams era, he would threaten to leave and Graham Williams would basically pander to his whims and needs in fear of losing the main star and arguably the shows biggest element. When JNT came along, he obviously wanted to start fresh and new so when Tom tried to pull the old ''I'm leaving'' shtick, JNT just took it straight and turned it on Tom.

A few years later at the 1983 Longleat Convention, a fan asked Tom why he left and he said ''I was pushed'' whilst staring at JNT before finishing with ''by Anthony Ainley.''

I think to be honest, Romana was the only one I was sad to see go. She was the one who I felt still had a lot of potential to unlock.

I liked Tom's Doctor but his time had probably come (plus I do now think he'd been allowed to get away with murder too much behind the scenes). I think (perhaps short of the Scratchman movie happening) he'd done all he could with the character without colliding with the limits of the role, and his mark was made (even listening to his Big Finish audios I get that sense of just re-covering old ground).

K9 was going to look out of place in the next era, whatever form it took, so it was probably for the best he left too.

Tanmann wrote:

In any case a story like Robots of Death is considered a classic to many fans, but by the more serious standards of the new regime it wouldn't have passed, even though a fair share of nadirs did.

Who says? I don't see that the humour was that strong in that one and so can't immediately see why JNT would have rejected it. Has this been stated by a member of the production crew at the time?

I dont think K9 should have become a show regular. He was long past his sell-by date by season 18.

I would have liked Romana to have stayed aswell. The replacement "fam" ... errrr ... i mean companions ... were not in her league.

stengos wrote:

Tanmann wrote:

In any case a story like Robots of Death is considered a classic to many fans, but by the more serious standards of the new regime it wouldn't have passed, even though a fair share of nadirs did.

Who says? I don't see that the humour was that strong in that one and so can't immediately see why JNT would have rejected it. Has this been stated by a member of the production crew at the time?

Well on the behind the scenes extras on Big Finish's adaptation of Song of the Megaptera (which was mooted for Season 20, and then progressively pushed back and fell by the wayside by the time Trial happened), the writers talked of why it never made it to TV, and they did say that at that point the show was reacting against the eccentricities of the Tom Baker era and the story perhaps wasn't seen as in keeping with that change of tide.

It does seem that JNT felt that the show had to be seen, either by the public or BBC, to not have reminders of the previous era's 'comedy' element (I definitely think that was a wrong priority).

Perhaps it was a bit much of me to say a Robots of Death would have been eliminated by the new regime (although JNT did have a policy of not wanting writers from the past back), but I do think it would've been vetted, and lost a lot of its original character, and for me some of its best moments. I believe The Visitation was heavily edited of its humor on JNT's insistence.

I dont think K9 should have become a show regular. He was long past his sell-by date by season 18.

I would have liked Romana to have stayed aswell. The replacement "fam" ... errrr ... i mean companions ... were not in her league.

I believe K9 was largely kept on past The Invisible Enemy because the show was facing major budget cuts at that time, and it was felt that it would better justify the expense of building K9 if he wasn't just seen in the one story.

K9 was definitely one I could take or leave. And I would agree that he gave the heroes too much plot armour. There was actually a moment in Stones of Blood where he seemed to have become totalled, which would've been a poignant moment if it had been the end, but he always ended up repaired.

Lalla on the other hand I think she decided to leave because she was hitting problems in her relationship with Tom, and maybe she also felt that Romana had had her time.

Tanmann wrote:

stengos wrote:

Tanmann wrote:

In any case a story like Robots of Death is considered a classic to many fans, but by the more serious standards of the new regime it wouldn't have passed, even though a fair share of nadirs did.

Who says? I don't see that the humour was that strong in that one and so can't immediately see why JNT would have rejected it. Has this been stated by a member of the production crew at the time?

Well on the behind the scenes extras on Big Finish's adaptation of Song of the Megaptera (which was mooted for Season 20, and then progressively pushed back and fell by the wayside by the time Trial happened), the writers talked of why it never made it to TV, and they did say that at that point the show was reacting against the eccentricities of the Tom Baker era and the story perhaps wasn't seen as in keeping with that change of tide.

It does seem that JNT felt that the show had to be seen, either by the public or BBC, to not have reminders of the previous era's 'comedy' element (I definitely think that was a wrong priority).

Perhaps it was a bit much of me to say a Robots of Death would have been eliminated by the new regime (although JNT did have a policy of not wanting writers from the past back), but I do think it would've been vetted, and lost a lot of its original character, and for me some of its best moments. I believe The Visitation was heavily edited of its humor on JNT's insistence.

I dont think K9 should have become a show regular. He was long past his sell-by date by season 18.

I would have liked Romana to have stayed aswell. The replacement "fam" ... errrr ... i mean companions ... were not in her league.

I believe K9 was largely kept on past The Invisible Enemy because the show was facing major budget cuts at that time, and it was felt that it would better justify the expense of building K9 if he wasn't just seen in the one story.

K9 was definitely one I could take or leave. And I would agree that he gave the heroes too much plot armour. There was actually a moment in Stones of Blood where he seemed to have become totalled, which would've been a poignant moment if it had been the end, but he always ended up repaired.

Lalla on the other hand I think she decided to leave because she was hitting problems in her relationship with Tom, and maybe she also felt that Romana had had her time.

According to the Wikpedia Robert Holmes page, Holmes "requested a last minute re-write [to the Invisible Enemy script] so that K-9 would become an ongoing character." Which surprised me. I always assumed Williams was the one with utterly shit ideas like that. No citation is given for that though.

I agree about Lalla. According to the accounts i have read her relationship with Tom seems to have hit a rocky patch and she has said she found him difficult to work with in season 18. And so I think that may be a reason for her leaving. That said one of those acounts is by Waterhouse and i think less of him for sharing such information in his biography.