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Season 22: Too Bleak AND Violent?

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Pepsi Maxil
Bernard Marx
iank
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1Season 22: Too Bleak AND Violent? Empty Season 22: Too Bleak AND Violent? 3rd November 2019, 7:16 pm

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Season 22 saw the show go even further down the darker tone of Season 21 established by Eric Saward but to this day, a lot of fandom argue whether it worked well or if it was a tasteless sadistic mess....

You know the drill by now.....

My ratings

Attack Of The Cybermen: 3.5/5
Vengeance On Varos: 4/5
Mark Of The Rani: 3/5
The Two Doctors: 4.5/5
Timelash: 2.5/5
Revelation Of The Daleks: 5/5

2Season 22: Too Bleak AND Violent? Empty Re: Season 22: Too Bleak AND Violent? 3rd November 2019, 8:12 pm

Pepsi Maxil

Pepsi Maxil
The Grand Master

Peri's tits: 50000000000000000/5

3Season 22: Too Bleak AND Violent? Empty Re: Season 22: Too Bleak AND Violent? 3rd November 2019, 8:28 pm

Doctor7

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Hello maxil I was trying to get a hold of you.

4Season 22: Too Bleak AND Violent? Empty Re: Season 22: Too Bleak AND Violent? 3rd November 2019, 8:29 pm

Pepsi Maxil

Pepsi Maxil
The Grand Master

Doctor7 wrote:Hello maxil I was trying to get a hold of you.

Is everything OK? You can always PM me if you want to talk.

5Season 22: Too Bleak AND Violent? Empty Re: Season 22: Too Bleak AND Violent? 3rd November 2019, 8:31 pm

iank

iank

Timelash aside, it's an awesome season. It certainly has a unique identity, with Saward's bleaker vision now maturing with a dose of Holmes-inspired dark humour and memorable characterisation.
One of my faves, and I hope it's on Blu ray soon.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKNC69I8Mq_pJfvBireybsg

6Season 22: Too Bleak AND Violent? Empty Re: Season 22: Too Bleak AND Violent? 3rd November 2019, 8:51 pm

Bernard Marx

Bernard Marx

iank wrote:Timelash aside, it's an awesome season. It certainly has a unique identity, with Saward's bleaker vision now maturing with a dose of Holmes-inspired dark humour and memorable characterisation.
One of my faves, and I hope it's on Blu ray soon.
Seconded. Mark of the Rani is a little pedestrian, and Timelash is crap (albeit amusingly so), but the rest range from very good to superb, with Revelation being one of my absolute favourites in Who history. As you say, the grimness of season 21 is refined here into a hybrid merging it with Holmes’ trademark for hard hitting black humour, and it works wonders throughout. It harkens back to Talons in that respect, especially in The Two Doctors.

7Season 22: Too Bleak AND Violent? Empty Re: Season 22: Too Bleak AND Violent? 3rd November 2019, 8:56 pm

Pepsi Maxil

Pepsi Maxil
The Grand Master

Varos is horrible. Awful direction, dreadful acting from most and a very boring second part. Timelash is enjoyable in how silly it is. Paul Darrow alone makes it a better watch.

8Season 22: Too Bleak AND Violent? Empty Re: Season 22: Too Bleak AND Violent? 3rd November 2019, 8:57 pm

Doctor7

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I think I might buy timelash actually for my birthday along with time and the rani and remembrance

9Season 22: Too Bleak AND Violent? Empty Re: Season 22: Too Bleak AND Violent? 3rd November 2019, 9:54 pm

Tanmann

Tanmann
Dick Tater

I will say it has a bit more sense of ebb and flow as a season than the previous Davison seasons did. Though probably only because there's no disrupting addition of extra companions this year.

Attack of the Cybermen starts with a satisfying sense of energy in part one, but seems to go nowhere but descend into witless, craftless action grot in the second half, with Lytton's redemption being referenced too out of the blue to feel lucid. Still I don't know why it's particularly singled out when there have been worse examples of alienating continuity dominating a story, or misanthropic slaughter in the previous season (oh I guess they're exonerated because they pre-date Caves of Androzani).

Vengeance on Varos does have some interesting politics in there, but otherwise it's a sloppy, nasty violent mess that functions so much as an aimless runaround that it ends up feeling a bit sociopathic really. My issue with the violence in this is that it seems so easy for the Doctor to kill the guards through sheer contrived calamity that almost nothing here feels like a legitimate threat.

Mark of the Rani is just boring and leaden. But that said, I do think Colin and the Master spar very well indeed.

The Two Doctors feels like it should be great. Its plotting and character motivation is the most competent we've seen this season, and there is a more credible sci-fi look and feel to much of its first half. I dunno though, I feel like it flirts occasionally with some fun and promising material only to keep losing interest and moving onto something else (particularly given how the Sontarans are wasted and we see very little of any team-up between the two Doctors). I also have to say the Doctor's attitude to eugenics in here (namely that Androgums can never become enlightened or trusted) leaves a bit of a nasty taste in my mouth. Nonetheless it's the best offering so far.

Timelash. You may think I'm crazy but I think this one's quite fun, despite being very patchy, am dram and having the worst treatment of Peri all season.

Revelation of the Daleks. Definitely my favourite story of the season. Witty, acidic, subversive, and with some solid bits of menace and suspense. It really is more than the sum of its parts. Probably the best script to come from Saward, and one that hints the show and its new anti-hero was possibly going in a very rich and interesting new direction before Grade decided to throw a spanner in the works.

Overall I don't think the season entirely breaks even in terms of overall quality, but nor do I think it deserves the blame for killing the show. I do think JNT and Saward did a lot of damage to the brand, but not necessarily here.

10Season 22: Too Bleak AND Violent? Empty Re: Season 22: Too Bleak AND Violent? 4th November 2019, 6:44 am

Boofer

Boofer

Attack Of The Cybermen: 6/10
Vengeance On Varos: 8/10
Mark Of The Rani: 7/10
The Two Doctors: 6/10
Lameshit: 3/10
Revelation Of The Daleks: 8/10

11Season 22: Too Bleak AND Violent? Empty Re: Season 22: Too Bleak AND Violent? 4th November 2019, 11:26 am

burrunjor

burrunjor

Its a good season overall. I feel it gets a bad rep because it came before the cancellation crisis, so people just assume it was crap and that's why the show failed.

Attack is a good story. Its a little continuity heavy, but I enjoyed it. People say the Doctors reaction to Lytton's redemption doesn't make sense but IMO it does.

Lytton was under the Daleks control, and furthermore he wasn't just a mercenary. When the Cybermen captured him, he could have sold the Cryons out and the Doctor and humanity, but he withstood torture and conversion to protect them all, and died saving the Doctors life.

Vengeance on Varos meanwhile is a classic story, and easily one of the best of the 80s.

Mark of the Rani meanwhile is an excellent story that gives us a more ccomplex, yet unsympathetic villain in the Rani. I remember my dad always used to say that the reason they never bothered with the Rani in New Who was because they couldn't just write her as a psycho, or wanting the Doctors D LOL. Lets be honest that's what most of the villains in New Who are. A villain like the Rani who can in someways justify herself to the hero, whilst still being reprehensible is difficult to pull off.

The Two Doctors meanwhile is enjoyable. Shockeye is great, Colin is on top form, but it does waste Patrick Troughton, and the story is a jumbled mess in some ways. Jacqueline Pearce I'd say elevates it more than anything else as she is one of the best guest actors they ever had.

I love it when she just flips out. "KILL HIM, KILL HIM!" classic Servalan moment there, also the bit where she licks the blood off the floor is disturbing. I was even more impressed to read that was improvised.


Timelash sadly is as shit as everyone makes out. Its a neat idea of the Doctor meeting a historical figure, and one ironically that New Who would do much better with The Shakespear Code and Vincent and the Doctor (which having rewatched recently is as good as its made out to be.) Other than that though its crap.

Revelation fortunately more than makes up for it, and is one of the best Dalek stories. It explores new areas for DW with its black comedy, Davros is at his best since Genesis, and Colin though sidelined a bit gets to show a more compassionate side which is great. Even just little moments like comforting Peri over the DJ, or honouring Orcini's last wishes.

Jobel is also one of my fave guest characters. He is just vile, and I love the fact that even his actor hated him, hence why he insisted on his wig falling off which was a genius touch.

Overall not a bad season. In fact I'd say its as good as season 12. Like that season it has one stinker (Timelash/Robot) whilst the rest all range from good (Attack of the Cybermen, Two Doctors, Revenge of the Cybermen) to great (Sontaran Experiment, Mark of the Rani) to classic (Revelation, Genesis, Ark in Space, Venegeance)

Sadly however like I said because season 12 was the start of a glorious era, people overlook its duds or average stories, whilst with 22 because it came before the hiatus the reverse is true.

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