My recent rewatch of New Who

Over the last few weeks I've rewatched New Who again for the first time in 6 years. I'm currently on Tennant's third season.

Overall I think my opinions have remained pretty much the same. The Eccelston    era is probably worse than I remember though.

Bad Wolf and Parting of the Ways are dreadful. I'm flabbergasted that they are so well regarded? The Anne Droid is almost as bad as Missy. It doesn't wreck continuity like Pissy Missy does, but it probably takes the show into the realm of parody as much.

Eccelston is also terrible, but I'm not sure how much of that is his fault. We know that he clashed with the production team and whilst we don't know why, a part of me wonders if its because he didn't like the direction the show went in.

I do know that Eccelston didn't like the overt comedy, (even he felt he was too self conscious.) He also disliked the romance with Rose. (In real life they had more of a father/daughter relationship off set and he thought it was creepy.)

Then there is the fact that RTD picked out his coat, and the fact that Eccelston kept saying the 9th Doctor is just RTD, not him. At the time people took it as a compliment, but in hindsight it seems to me that Eccelston was perhaps getting at the fact that he didn't have any input into his character.

Tennant meanwhile is better simply because he was more comfortable with the RTD crap, but perhaps Eccelston was a better choice, just wasted in the role?

Whatever the case I still say series 3 was the best of the RTD years. In spite of having the worst finale, (Last of the Time Lords, the first two parts of that three parter were actually quite good. Utopia is even a classic, though Simm was always just playing the Joker, and I HATE the Drums retcon. Derek Jacobi though was excellent. The only good Master in twenty years and they dumped him after 5 mins?)

Martha is just so much better than Rose or Donna.

Not only is Freema more down to earth and likable, but we focused less on the soap opera elements with her. It felt more like a proper genre series again with Martha.

I must admit though at this stage I'm just waiting for Matt Smith to show up. Tennant is a good leading man, but really I'm right that he just isn't the Doctor.

I’m re-watching each decade story by story as to splice up my re-watches, and I’m getting exactly the same vibe from series 1 and Eccleston’s performance. If Eccelston has anything in his favour, it’s that his performance comes across as considerably less smug than Tennant’s, yet his lack of confidence also makes him noticeably even less believable than Tennant in the role (if that’s possible!). I also think that his status as a gritty actor contrasts badly with what is presented on screen- the early 2000s era of Who is much more camp than the rest of the decades I am currently watching, and I don’t think this style works with an actor renowned for gritty crime dramas like Eccleston. It just comes across as incredibly awkward.

Mind, I’ve not yet got to Parting of the Ways in my decade by decade viewings, though I suspect it’ll be very much the same as your experience there. My previous re-watch left me very frustrated with the amount of shoehorned dated 2000s popcultural iconography and the staggeringly crap ending, and I dread to imagine how it’ll hold up on my next viewing. Likewise, I wonder how the Tennant era will hold up? Given my prior disdain for series 2, I’m not looking forward to it too much, but at least I have the classic series decades to fall back on.

Bernard Marx wrote:I’m re-watching each decade story by story as to splice up my re-watches, and I’m getting exactly the same vibe from series 1 and Eccleston’s performance. If Eccelston has anything in his favour, it’s that his performance comes across as considerably less smug than Tennant’s, yet his lack of confidence also makes him noticeably even less believable than Tennant in the role (if that’s possible!). I also think that his status as a gritty actor contrasts badly with what is presented on screen- the early 2000s era of Who is much more camp than the rest of the decades I am currently watching, and I don’t think this style works with an actor renowned for gritty crime dramas like Eccleston. It just comes across as incredibly awkward.

Mind, I’ve not yet got to Parting of the Ways in my decade by decade viewings, though I suspect it’ll be very much the same as your experience there. My previous re-watch left me very frustrated with the amount of shoehorned dated 2000s popcultural iconography and the staggeringly crap ending, and I dread to imagine how it’ll hold up on my next viewing. Likewise, I wonder how the Tennant era will hold up? Given my prior disdain for series 2, I’m not looking forward to it too much, but at least I have the classic series decades to fall back on.

Series 2 believe it or not isn't as bad as its reputation would suggest.

Love and Monsters is one of the worst pieces of trash I've ever seen, and New Earth isn't that much better,

Still Tooth and Claw, School Reunion, The Cyberman two parter, and Girl in the Fireplace are all really good episodes.

I don't think Girl in the Fireplace works at all as a DW story, but as an story in its own right its fine.

The Satan two parter is excellent meanwhile. Really scary in places, and an interesting idea overall. IMO however its let down by being in the revival. All the Doctor, Rose love crap, the smugness from Tennant and Piper etc. If it had been done by say Hinchcliff I think it could have been as good as Pyramids of Mars.

Army of Ghosts and Doomsday meanwhile is definitely the best RTD era finale. (Though granted that isn't saying much.)

Its streets ahead of Parting of the Ways. Its ending makes more sense, it isn't full of dated references, the Doctor saves the day, and there are a lot of interesting ideas in there too (Ive always been fascinated by alternate universes so maybe that's why?)

The Doctor/Rose romance is totally out of character, but again its not badly written or acted in that story. The only real big flaw with Doomsday objectively IMO is how badly the Cybermen are undermined. I'm far more of a Dalek fanboy, but even I think RTD took it too far.

Last of the Time Lords meanwhile is far worse. The Jesus Doctor bit, is as our good man Rob (who needs to come back) said fanfic bullshit of the highest order.

Journey's End meanwhile comes over as bad fan fic with Handy, and undermines the Doctor to a horrendous degree with the Doctor/Donna.

The End of Time meanwhile is awful in every conceivable way. Its dreary and miserable, whilst still being silly, campy and lightweight. It wrecks the concept of regeneration, is Tennant's worst performance, and feels nasty and spiteful to Matt Smith and Steven Moffat with all the "some new man goes sauntering off."

Series 3 is still overall better than series 2, but overall I'd say series 2 is better than series 1.

Rewatch?!?!?

You sick, sick man.

Off to the infirmary with you!

I rewatched S1 some years ago, and found I liked it a lot less than I remembered, but I've never been able to put myself through the entire Tennant era since it was broadcast. I have cherry picked a few. Mostly the Dalek stories, Rise of the Cybermen, Blink, and Human Nature, but to actually put myself through all the rest of his stories, I couldn't face it. I just find him utterly unpalatable.
That said, I recently started a (intermittent) rewatch of the Matt Smith era for the first time since broadcast. Partly prompted by S5 in particular being relatively highly regarded, and by the fact that I thought certain stories from that season were pretty good at the time.
But I have to say that although I'm only up to Vampires In Venice, all that's happened so far is that I've just noticed all the crap elements to it, and how fundamentally piss-poor it is, to the point where it ruins even the better stories that they came up with. I had this exact experience when I rewatched S1, and doesn't bode well for my loose plan to carry on beyond the point where I originally gave up on NuWho, early on in S7.
If I do manage to put myself through this effort, it might take me a long time, because my tolerance for even the perceived 'best' of NuWho is extremely low.

On Eccleston, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if with the benefit of hindsight and he had his time again, that he'd turn down the role. It clearly wasn't him at all. By far his most convincing scenes are where he gets angry, which he does very well, like in Dalek. But otherwise, I don't think many people, including Eccleston himself, would argue with the notion that he simply wasn't the right man for the job.
I think he only did it because he was mates with RTD after they worked on The Second Coming. (which is arguably one of the few, if not the only good thing RTD ever did)

burrunjor wrote:Over the last few weeks I've rewatched New Who again for the first time in 6 years. I'm currently on Tennant's third season.

Overall I think my opinions have remained pretty much the same. The Eccelston    era is probably worse than I remember though.

Bad Wolf and Parting of the Ways are dreadful. I'm flabbergasted that they are so well regarded? The Anne Droid is almost as bad as Missy. It doesn't wreck continuity like Pissy Missy does, but it probably takes the show into the realm of parody as much.

Eccelston is also terrible, but I'm not sure how much of that is his fault. We know that he clashed with the production team and whilst we don't know why, a part of me wonders if its because he didn't like the direction the show went in.

I do know that Eccelston didn't like the overt comedy, (even he felt he was too self conscious.) He also disliked the romance with Rose. (In real life they had more of a father/daughter relationship off set and he thought it was creepy.)

Then there is the fact that RTD picked out his coat, and the fact that Eccelston kept saying the 9th Doctor is just RTD, not him. At the time people took it as a compliment, but in hindsight it seems to me that Eccelston was perhaps getting at the fact that he didn't have any input into his character.

Tennant meanwhile is better simply because he was more comfortable with the RTD crap, but perhaps Eccelston was a better choice, just wasted in the role?

Whatever the case I still say series 3 was the best of the RTD years. In spite of having the worst finale, (Last of the Time Lords, the first two parts of that three parter were actually quite good. Utopia is even a classic, though Simm was always just playing the Joker, and I HATE the Drums retcon. Derek Jacobi though was excellent. The only good Master in twenty years and they dumped him after 5 mins?)

Martha is just so much better than Rose or Donna.

Not only is Freema more down to earth and likable, but we focused less on the soap opera elements with her. It felt more like a proper genre series again with Martha.

I must admit though at this stage I'm just waiting for Matt Smith to show up. Tennant is a good leading man, but really I'm right that he just isn't the Doctor.

In regards to Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways, I'd say that I really enjoy it, due to Bad Wolf almost showing the pure lengths of how humanity has fallen, and are willing to stab each other in the back for their own gains. The technology stuff isn't perfect of course (especially, in regards to Captain Jack's segments), but I was often reminded of Black Mirror when it came to self satirising reality shows. As for Parting of the Ways, I love the urgency of it, with the Daleks actually being threatening and murderous, but with actual substance unlike the overly bloody Resurrection of the Daleks. I also like how manipulative and scheming the Daleks are, an element that hasn't been used since Day of the Daleks. However, I do have one issue with the Daleks in this: their schemes with reality TV and converting people into one of their own would have made more sense if it was the Cybermen instead of the Daleks. But, besides that aspect and the groaning Deus-Ex Machina with God Rose, I love the two-parter and put it along the lines of War Games and Caves of Androzani as my favourite regeneration story.

I'm quite mixed on Series 1. Whilst Dalek and The Empty Child are rather good (although both their endings are patchy) and I'm quite fond of The Unquiet Dead and Fathers Day (Yes it is Cornell at his most sappy, but I still enjoy it for some reason) most of the other stories are a mixed bag and have not aged that well.

Also on a side note, whatever happened to Rob Filth?

I think he just didn't like the fact I was made a moderator, saw it as a bad sea-change and decided that the Hive wasn't for him anymore. At first I thought he'd just taken a brief cooling off hiatus to plan his revenge, but it seems he's decided to stay gone.

He's still active on twitter though.

Some right masochists on this thread.

I thought Rob just gave up when Jodie Whittaker became the Doctor. I didn't think it was to do with anyone on here.

Well I finished New Poo just yesterday. (And by that I mean the Doctor Falls. That's the end as far as I'm concerned.)

Overall its not completely terrible, but there is just too much wasted potential and really I'm not surprised that it gets smashed by Old Who on DVD every year.

I think that New Who is like the X-Men film series tbh.

Like them there are some brilliant bits, like Logan, Blink, Matt's first series, as well as some fabulous casting choices, like Matt, Hugh Jackman, Patrick Stewart, Peter Capaldi, Karen Gillan, Famke Janssen etc.

However like the X-Men film series it also suffers from an appalling continuity. Everybody makes continuity gaffes, but most of the time they are minor, like the date of a story being wrong, or a minor part of the lore being contradicted.

New Who and the X-Men go out of their way to change things through resets, and timeline's being rewritten, and then they never bother to keep track of it, which as a result leaves you wondering just what the fuck has happened and what hasn't?

Both are also guilty of dumbing down the source material, giving us in name only versions of classic characters that don't do them justice, and recently both gave into toxic SJW crap.

Both also had a habit of making you think they were finished and beyond all hope, only to come back with a great story. Like The End of Time for instance. That was so toe curlingly bad, it really felt like a franchise killer, but then they bounced back with Matt. Similarly X-Men Appocalypse was fairly lacklustre, but then bounced back with Logan the best film they ever did.

Ultimately however they have both worn out their welcome, though at least the Fox X-Men series had the decency to die. Lets hope New Who soon follows suit.

Ronnie wrote:I thought Rob just gave up when Jodie Whittaker became the Doctor. I didn't think it was to do with anyone on here.

He's quit a lot of social media lately. Even his facebook is deactivated.

Yeah I don’t use FB very much now apart from keeping in touch with mates.
I used to be a Facebookoholic at one time, but it can give a false impression of what’s going on in the big wide world. Twitter even more so.