Did you ever think it would come to this?

Did you ever think that Doctor Who would eventually end up in the horrible state it's in now? I feel so sorry for those that grew up with the classic series and now have to stand by helplessly as the course of the show is decided by SJWs. I feel like Doctor Who hates me. I feel like it's alienating me despite being so open and accessible to all. The introduction of Capaldi was supposed to be the moment that the new series finally connected itself with the classic series. It didn't. Four years on we're as far away from Doctor Who it's not even funny. Don't like it? Then fuck off and newer fans will take your place. How long will it be before they want us all back?

From the moment Moffat took over the signs were there, so yes, I anticipated the current sorry state of affairs.
My foolishness was to boldly predict that the BBC wouldn't shit the money bed by casting a woman, but having now had the benefit of examining #Gamergate #Comicsgate and #SoyWars I understand that the ideological agenda of anti-white, anti-male deviancy is much more important to the marxists who infiltrate the arts than simply making money.
It will actually get worse because Rule #2 is that SJWs always double down.
When the female Doctor Who spinoff crashes and burns, and its evil falsification of events in its "historicals" causes a black Troy style backlash, they will make it worse, not better.
Doctor Who has truly become Tumblr: The Television Series.

Even tho I knew it was considered a success when Rose was shown back in 2005 it always felt like an unsophisticated, science-lite version of the show I grew up with.

I didn't really expect it to last this long to be honest, part of me hopes it lasts long enough to become notorious for its badness to stop it happening to any other shows that get remade, but somehow it seems immune to a critical backlash (except by us lot!)

Oh and I don't think the current fans will want us back because they understand so little about our preferences for Dr Who we could almost be a different species...

There's always been a bit of an SJW bent to the revival from 2005 on.

RTD was an SJW in that he was scared of having the Doctor be the main hero in his own show because apparently that was sexist.

Seriously look at this interview with Christopher Eccelston (who not so coincidentally played the most useless Doctor of them all.) He goes on about how they have fixed the sexism of Old Who by making the companion as important (read more important) than the Doctor.

Of course Old Who was never sexist. It had plenty of strong female characters. Yes it had some weak ones, but so what? Some women and some men are weak, and there were plenty of male characters who were wimpy too.

As long as you don't say "this character is a wimp because they are a woman" then there is NOTHING sexist about having a wimpy female character.

Sadly however because the Doctor was a male hero he had to be undermined by RTD and he was. He saves the day in just ONE season finale in RTD's tenure, and twice in his first season.



Right from the start there was a germ of anti men in the New Shows DNA.

Its hilarious that WE get labelled anti women. I don't watch Xena and get angry that Joxer, a man is a sidekick to a female character (might add Joxer is a bigger moron than any of the Doctors female sidekicks.)

These people simply hate men and want to destroy strong roles for men. Whilst Moffat may have spinelessly bent over backwards and asked them to stick whatever they could fit up there, RTD was the one who brought them to the show.

Look at the profile of ANY SJW Doctor Who fan like Claudia Boleyn and they will say that it was the RTD era that made them fans. Why do you think that was?

Their favourite version of the Doctor could only be a weak, emasculated version always needing to be saved by his female companion. Can you imagine them being brought to the show by say Jon Pertwee's Doctor? A strong, confident, figure of authority?



feminist approved Doctor.



older sexist Doctor apparently!

We saw the same thing happen with Luke Skywalker another strong male character made weak. If these women were just wanting to have badass women like Xena, Buffy, and Charmed we'd all be cheering them on. But they don't. They want to kill ANY strong role for men, from Luke to the Doctor.

Yes and no. Pre-New Who, no, obviously, I never could have seen it ending up like this. But Burrunjour is right in that New Who has always emasculated the Doctor from day one, and that little seed has now become the entire plant.
It's a complete joke at this point, it really is. We're not the same species as the SJW fans. We're human. I've no idea what the fuck they are.

Doctor Who is dead, but the good news is that someone will find the right formula to do an updated non-contaminated version of the same idea.

Even with all its lesbian kisses and the rest of the claptrap Legends of Tomorrow managed to get some decent time travel episodes and parallel world adventures in there.

Doctor Who has thrown away its spot in the media firmament and nature abhors a vacuum. Something new will come and fill it. Same way the original Star Wars film replaced Flash Gordon in the popular imagination.

The old order changeth, yielding place to new, and God fulfills himself in many ways.

After the burping bin, "anti plastic!", farting aliens and the Adipose, anything was possible. In the new series, Danny Pink "doing some reading" was a source of derision, in the old series the great way Tom Baker delivers the line "I read a lot" explains he has a healthy nature in the universe (and it implicitly attacks anyone who does not recognise the value of reading). So the descent into a moronic state of mind was bound to happen. It's the way the series celebrates stupidity that annoys me. Courtney Woods in Kill the Moon with "Don't you think I'm special?" sums up the new philosophy to me. All idiots should be "celebrated" as they are, not guided to improvement. Empress of Mars is regarded as one of the new series' better efforts, but I can't stand the beginning at NASA where the characters are as smug as Tennant and Piper in series 2. The writers expect the audience to laugh at their banter, but I just feel nauseated. Too many wafer thin characters in this new series are celebrated by New Who fans. The original series shows true character, and the amazing characters of the first four Doctors are impossible now. New Who stands for a celebration of the mediocre, crass, shallow, utterly uninteresting personalities that seem to infect the modern TV world, and series 11 will simply continue to celebrate this mediocrity, gazing in admiration at shit and not even knowing what "gold" actually means anymore. Thank God for the original series! Never in that time did I ever think it would come to this...

Speaking strictly of NuWho.
I were but a child when I actually watched the show - I couldn't have made much of an inference of its decline aside from my own loss of interest.

Looking back, it has never been that good. I have a bit of a soft spot for Series 1, but little beside.

Then again, the BBC have always been autofellating bastards: give them something good and they'll either cancel it or send it to ruin. Doctor Who underwent both.

It doesn't bother me so much when I don't see NuWho has being meaningfully related to the Classic Series. Yet, what remains irritates me, and the BBC irritates me.

I didn't, but hindsight shows it to have been inevitable. The self-loathing fanboy mentality of the Fitzroy clique instantly rendered NuWho a slave to the zeitgeist, meaning that there was always a risk that if some truly evil and dangerous societal trends were to emerge, the show would be just as willing to follow those as it was the comparatively trivial trends of its early years.

Commander Maxil Gale wrote:Did you ever think that Doctor Who would eventually end up in the horrible state it's in now? I feel so sorry for those that grew up with the classic series and now have to stand by helplessly as the course of the show is decided by SJWs. I feel like Doctor Who hates me.

To be honest I felt that helpless way already about the self-harming JNT/Saward years of the show. I still think Warriors of the Deep is as hateful, toxic and perniciously cultish as anything the SJW cranks wanted the show to be (because as I've often said, Ian Levine to me was just like the SJW's of his day in terms of influencing the show to be made exclusively for his niche), and just as symbolic of a rot to the show's base-code.

This put me in a bit of an awkward position though, because as the RTD sycophants defended every tacky and desperate measure the new show took to be popular and liked again as a necessity to claw back from that point, they even had me believing it was true after a while.

And in their cultish fervor of praising how secure the ratings now were and what a popular phenomenon the show now was, they had me believing that the show would never commit Seppuku like that again. Then when we got to the Moffat era, I began to feel that at last the show was back on form and in safe hands.

Until we got to Let's Kill Hitler, and that's when I started to suddenly seriously worry. And I began to for the first time since the revival, genuinely struggle to care about the show anymore (I think the only two classic stories that left me feeling that way were The Leisure Hive and Resurrection of the Daleks).

But then at the end of 2013, it all felt like it could only be on the right track again. I felt like the show was secure again and that Moffat was only going to get more back on form now.

Then we got Missy and Death in Heaven, and I have to say it was so bad that it seemed to retoractively erase any reason to have ever cared about the New Series. Any point at which I cared about the Doctor's loss of his home and determination to never let it happen to Earth.... suddenly I was being told that was never the point of the show and that it was always meant to be an exercise in mindless, sociopathic wackiness we weren't meant to care about. It was like discovering a friend of eight years had been a compulsive liar to me all along, and realizing they weren't going to stop.

That said, I still never really expected them to go all the way and cast a female Doctor. Maybe I was naive but I didn't think they'd go that far. But at that point it was just one more incidental reason to be pessimistic. I did know in advance that a Chibnall-helmed series was going to be mediocre at best anyway, and nothing I couldn't easily miss. And frankly take away the SJW posturing, and that's pretty much how I'd describe the show now. Wafer thin and not much fun, with a few rude awakenings (Arachnids in the UK) that the makers really don't know what they're doing.

In hindsight it's probably inevitable that it happened though. There comes a point where the best talents move onto greener pastures and we're left with the runt of the litter for who's available to keep the show going.

Commander Maxil Gale wrote:Did you ever think that Doctor Who would eventually end up in the horrible state it's in now?

In terms of appointing a femal lead - no. I thought the talk of doing that was just hyperbole, a joke, pratting about like JNT used to just to generate publicity for the show. Then common sense would set in and they would  choose sbdy like David Warner or David Collings. Okay so too old but sbdy with that sort of gravitas.

Choose an actress totally unsuited to the role - like Whittershitter? No. They'd go for a woman with gravitas, screen presence, personal charisma. Somebody you'd happlily sit down to hear them read a telephome directory. A female version of Andreas Katsulas (but not dead) or David Warner or David Collings. I had no idea who but the BBC could be relied upon to use their sound Reithean judgement to select the star of tomorrow.

Submit to the SJW agenda? No. At least no more than the shit we got off of RTD. I always thought the BBC were so invested in the commercial viability of the show that they would go for sound action adventure story telling. Sort of Buffy but in a Dr Who context. They'd want to attract new audiences but they would also remain loyal, if you like, to the old aswell. Chris was a sound choice as show runner because of Broadchurch and Camelot was sort of okay. I find NuWho so bland and forgettable that i wasn't even aware what he had written in the past so couldnt judge him on that. And i certainly wasn't going to watch any of that shit a second time.

Ultimately i thought people who slagged season 11 off before it aired were being unfair. You had to give BallChibs, Shitterwhitter and Mandy a chance. Oddly the only person in the show i did right off before season 11 aired was Bradley Walsh. How strange that now sounds.

Yes. You're right. I was a real dick when i was younger. But i am older and wiser now. i think they will all learn from their mistakes and season 12 will be a real belter, a return to the form of Dicks, Hinchcliffe, Holmes, Eric and JNT. The beginning of a new dawn, a brighter tomorrow. The only way is up. Things can only get better. The shitfest will be over.

As is the case of many here, I didn’t foresee things being as bad as they are now, but it was always somewhat inevitable since New Who’s inception. It’s always been a more anti-intellectual series which has pandered to the more popularist elements of society (though I didn’t properly realise the extent of this until I entered my teens), and so this shit was always possible, yet I’d generally tried to convince myself that things would only get better in due course. After re-evaluating all of New Who properly, and experiencing the calamity of series 11, I feel as if the New Who production team have forced this clusterfuck on themselves.

I’ve now basically concluded that TruWho was an intelligent and multi-faceted series with many overarching influences and styles to behold (as well as one that adhered to the counter-culture of its time period), yet one that wouldn’t and hasn’t been as successful in the modern era due to the conservative vestiges of mainstream entertainment diluting the very essence of the series into something far less admirable and more shallow. Though I do sometimes wonder, had someone else taken the reigns of Who and understood the fundamentals behind its artistic integrity, if there could have been...some other way.

Well to echo somewhat what you said about the anti-intellectualism, the New Series has always been defended from the whole insufferable 'mouth of babes' view.

And I can understand how it happened that fans felt so bad about the 80's that they collectively figured "better it be based on what the mouth of babes say the show's tastes should be geared toward, than the mouth of Ian Levine".

But if that's the only infantilized perspective the show is geared toward, then it seems painfully unlikely to grow. And it also speaks to just how arrogant and condescending fandom had become that they literally didn't think the casual audience could 'get' the classic show's way of storytelling. That it had to be kept dumbed down, and so if you complained and suggested the show should be better and why should we endure the show being dumbed down.... well the reaction of outrage from many RTD sycophants was really revealing. You were effectively treated as though you'd complained in the middle of a children's party or complained about measures to accommodate the handicapped. That's how condescending their view of the mainstream's intellect was.

But I think that's also why we hoped things would get better. That as the mainstream got more used to the show it would do more to challenge them. That as the 'babes' who loved the show grew up, maybe the show would have to grow up with them. For a brief time in Moffat's era it looked like it did, but it never really lasted. Infact it often DID seem like half the ideas his episodes were based on were suggestions of what his son told him would be cool (i.e. what if the Doctor goes back to kill Hitler? What if the Stature of Liberty was a Weeping Angel too?)

It seems now that those babes have become increasingly indoctrinated SJWs and Feminists, and so the show and fandom has come to acquiesce to them as the show's future. Since fandom had already pretty much become a cult, so they were prepared to accept another cult like it.

FRAZER HINES APPARENTLY NOT A FAN OF “PC STORYLINES” IN DOCTOR WHO

http://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/frazer-hines-thinks-doctor-who-is-too-pc-90736.htm

For the politics, my only reservation was the common-sense notion that alienating a large part of your potential audience was obviously a really shit idea on multiple levels, most explicitly the economic.

I figured we'd see it, then we'd see more of it, then they'd reel back seeing it was a bad idea.

The 'female Doctor' concept I just took as flirting, but never an actual possibility because ... it didn't make any sense: both in the show and out.

But it happened and it went as badly as it clearly would.

As for the general quality, I'd say it was fairly consistent from S1-10: mostly shit, but with a few decent episodes here and there. Series 11 was about what you'd expect when you go over the event horizon and make the show a pure political piece.

I can't comprehend associating it with the Classic series even from the outset, so as to how far it strayed I couldn't say. There were moments when it went really out of its way to insult the Classic, sure, but the more it happened the less I cared.