Every JNT era story rated

Excellent stuff.


The Leisure Hive 6/10
Melgos 9/10
Full Circle 8.5/10
State of Decay 10/10
Warrior's Gate 10/10
The Keeper of Traken 10/10
Logopolis 6/10
Castrovalva 7.5/10
Four to Doomsday 8/10
Kinda 10/10
The Visitation 5/10
Black Orchid 7/10
Earthshock 10/10
Time-Flight 7/10
Arc of Infinity 2/10
Snakedance 8/10
Mawdryn Undead 10/10
Terminus 3/10
Enlightenment 10/10
The King's Demons 7/10
The Five Doctors 6/10
Warriors of the Deep 7/10
The Awakening 7.5/10
Frontios 9/10
Resurrection o the Daleks 10/10
Planet of Fire 5/10
The Caves of Androzani 6/10
The Twin Dilemma 7/10
Attack of the Cybermen 8/10
Vengeance on Varos 4/10
The Mark of the Rani 6/10
The Two Doctors 10/10
Timelash 8/10
Revelation of the Daleks 10/10
The Trial of a Timelord 3/10
Time and the Rani 10/10
Paradise Towers 9/10
Delta and the Bannermen 10/10
Dragonfire 4/10
Remembrance of the Daleks 10/10
The Happiness Patrol 8/10
Silver Nemesis 7/10
The Greatest Show in the Galaxy 10/10
Battlefield 7/10
Ghost Light 8/10
The Curse of Fenric 10/10
Survival 9/10

I see you’ve missed out Warriors of the Deep, Maxil.

Anyway, I’ll try this myself:
The Leisure Hive: 4/10
Meglos: 6/10
Full Circle: 8.5/10
State of Decay: 8.5/10
Warrior’s Gate: 9/10
The Keeper of Traken: 6/10
Logopolis: 5/10
Castrovalva: 6/10
Four to Doomsday: 4/10
Kinda: 8/10
The Visitation: 5/10
Black Orchid: 7/10
Earthshock: 7/10
Time Flight: 2/10
Arc of Infinity: 3/10
Snakedance: 7/10
Mawdryn Undead: 8/10
Terminus: 6/10
Enlightenment: 9/10
The King’s Demons: 2/10
The Five Doctors: 7/10
Warriors of the Deep: 0/10
The Awakening: 8/10
Frontios: 5/10
Resurrection of the Daleks: 4/10
Planet of Fire: 5/10
The Caves of Androzani: 10/10
The Twin Dilemma: 1/10
Attack of the Cybermen: 8/10
Vengeance on Varos: 7/10
The Mark of the Rani: 6/10
The Two Doctors: 8/10
Timelash: 3/10
Revelation of the Daleks: 9.5/10
The Mysterious Planet: 3/10
Mindwarp: 4/10
Terror of the Vervoids: 5/10
The Ultimate Foe: 5/10
Time and the Rani: 1/10
Paradise Towers: 3/10
Delta and the Bannermen: 4/10
Dragonfire: 4/10
Remembrance of the Daleks: 9/10
The Happiness Patrol: 7/10
Silver Nemesis: 4/10
The Greatest Show in the Galaxy: 8/10
Battlefield: 6/10
Ghost Light: 8.5/10
The Curse of Fenric: 9.5/10
Survival: 8/10

I'll try and attempt this myself:

The Leisure Hive: 2/10
Meglos: 6/10
Full Circle: 7.5/10
State of Decay: 10/10
Warriors Gate: 8/10
Keeper of Traken: 4/10
Logopolis: 3/10
Castrovalva: 4/10
Four to Doomsday: 0/10
Kinda: 8.5/10
The Visitation: 5/10
Black Orchid: 9/10
Earthshock: 9/10
Time-Flight: 2/10
Arc of Infinity: 1/10
Snakedance: 8/10
Mawdryn Undead: 4/10
Terminus: 0/10
Enlightenment: 10/10
The Kings Demons: 3/10
The Five Doctors: 7/10
Warriors of the Deep: 0/10
The Awakening: 8.5/10
Frontios: 10/10
Resurrection of the Daleks: 5/10
Planet of Fire: 5/10
Caves of Androzani: 10/10
The Twin Dilemma: 7/10
Attack of the Cybermen: 8/10
Vengeance on Varos: 10/10
Mark of the Rani: 4/10
The Two Doctors: 5/10
Timelash: 2/10
Revelation of the Daleks: 10/10
The Mysterious Planet: 8/10
Mindwarp: 9/10
Terror of the Vervoids: 8/10
The Ultimate Foe: 8.5/10
Time and the Rani: 0/10
Paradise Towers: 7.5/10
Delta and the Bannerman: 8/10
Dragonfire: 4/10
Remembrance of the Daleks: 9.5/10
The Happiness Patrol: 9/10
Silver Nemesis: 8/10
The Greatest Show in the Galaxy: 10/10
Battlefield: 9/10
Ghost Light: 10/10
The Curse of Fenric: 10/10
Survival: 10/10

SomeCallMeEnglishGiraffe wrote:I'll try and attempt this myself:

The Leisure Hive: 2/10
Meglos: 6/10
Full Circle: 7.5/10
State of Decay: 10/10
Warriors Gate: 8/10
Keeper of Traken: 4/10
Logopolis: 3/10
Castrovalva: 4/10
Four to Doomsday: 0/10
Kinda: 8.5/10
The Visitation: 5/10
Black Orchid: 9/10
Earthshock: 9/10
Time-Flight: 2/10
Arc of Infinity: 1/10
Snakedance: 8/10
Mawdryn Undead: 4/10
Terminus: 0/10
Enlightenment: 10/10
The Kings Demons: 3/10
The Five Doctors: 7/10
Warriors of the Deep: 0/10
The Awakening: 8.5/10
Frontios: 10/10
Resurrection of the Daleks: 5/10
Planet of Fire: 5/10
Caves of Androzani: 10/10
The Twin Dilemma: 7/10
Attack of the Cybermen: 8/10
Vengeance on Varos: 10/10
Mark of the Rani: 4/10
The Two Doctors: 5/10
Timelash: 2/10
Revelation of the Daleks: 10/10
The Mysterious Planet: 8/10
Mindwarp: 9/10
Terror of the Vervoids: 8/10
The Ultimate Foe: 8.5/10
Time and the Rani: 0/10
Paradise Towers: 7.5/10
Delta and the Bannerman: 8/10
Dragonfire: 4/10
Remembrance of the Daleks: 9.5/10
The Happiness Patrol: 9/10
Silver Nemesis: 8/10
The Greatest Show in the Galaxy: 10/10
Battlefield: 9/10
Ghost Light: 10/10
The Curse of Fenric: 10/10
Survival: 10/10

Not a bad set of ratings, if I say so myself. Thinking about it, I should probably downgrade Arc of Infinity a little more- it is truly shite. I tend to reserve full tens for the absolute best- Fenric and Revelation came very close, mind.

This is not a reaction to a certain other thread, by any chance?

The Leisure Hive: 6/10
Meglos: 4/10
Full Circle: 5/10
State of Decay: 7.5/10
Warriors Gate: 2/10
Keeper of Traken: 6/10
Logopolis: 1/10
Castrovalva: 1/10
Four to Doomsday: 1/10
Kinda: 5/10
The Visitation: 6.5/10
Black Orchid: 4/10
Earthshock: 5/10
Time-Flight: 2/10
Arc of Infinity: 3/10
Snakedance: 6.5/10
Mawdryn Undead: 7/10
Terminus: 7/10
Enlightenment: 8/10
The Kings Demons: 0/10
The Five Doctors: 7.5/10
Warriors of the Deep: 1/10
The Awakening: 7/10
Frontios: 5/10
Resurrection of the Daleks: 7/10
Planet of Fire: 4/10
Caves of Androzani: 9/10
The Twin Dilemma: 1/10
Attack of the Cybermen: 7/10
Vengeance on Varos: 5/10
Mark of the Rani: 2/10
The Two Doctors: 4/10
Timelash: 3/10
Revelation of the Daleks: 8/10
The Mysterious Planet: 2/10
Mindwarp: 1/10
Terror of the Vervoids: 5/10
The Ultimate Foe: 4/10
Time and the Rani: 0/10
Paradise Towers: 0/10
Delta and the Bannerman: 0/10
Dragonfire: 3/10
Remembrance of the Daleks: 9/10
The Happiness Patrol: 0/10
Silver Nemesis: 3/10
The Greatest Show in the Galaxy: 4/10
Battlefield: 6/10
Ghost Light: 6.5/10
The Curse of Fenric: 7/10
Survival: 5/10

Season 18 (1980-81)
The Leisure Hive: 3/10
Meglos: 6/10
Full Circle: 7/10
State of Decay: 9/10
Warriors Gate: 8/10
Keeper of Traken: 7/10
Logopolis: 4/10

GRADE: C

Season 19 (1982)
Castrovalva: 7/10
Four to Doomsday:3/10
Kinda: 5/10
The Visitation: 6.5/10
Black Orchid: 9/10
Earthshock: 10/10
Time-Flight: 3/10
GRADE: B

Season 20 (1983)
Arc of Infinity: 5/10
Snakedance: 8/10
Mawdryn Undead: 7/10
Terminus: 5/10
Enlightenment: 10/10
The Kings Demons: 4/10
The Five Doctors: 8/10
GRADE B-

Season 21 (1984)
Warriors of the Deep: 1/10
The Awakening: 8/10
Frontios: 8/10
Resurrection of the Daleks: 4/10
Planet of Fire: 5/10
Caves of Androzani: 10/10
The Twin Dilemma: 5/10
GRADE: B

Season 22 (1985)
Attack of the Cybermen: 7/10
Vengeance on Varos: 8/10
Mark of the Rani: 6/10
The Two Doctors: 9/10
Timelash: 3/10
Revelation of the Daleks: 10/10
GRADE: A

Season 23 (1986)
The Mysterious Planet: 5/10
Mindwarp: 1/10
Terror of the Vervoids: 5/10
The Ultimate Foe: 4/10

GRADE: D

Season 24 (1987)
Time and the Rani: 3/10
Paradise Towers: 5/10
Delta and the Bannerman: 5/10
Dragonfire: 4/10

GRADE: C-

Season 25 (1988)
Remembrance of the Daleks: 9/10
The Happiness Patrol: 7/10
Silver Nemesis: 4/10
The Greatest Show in the Galaxy: 7/10
GRADE: A

Season 26 (1989)
Battlefield: 5/10
Ghost Light: 7/10
The Curse of Fenric: 8/10
Survival: 7/10

GRADE: A-

The Leisure Hive: 5/10
Meglos: 5/10
Full Circle: 6/10
State of Decay: 8/10
Warriors Gate: 8/10
Keeper of Traken: 6/10
Logopolis: 5/10
Castrovalva: 5/10
Four to Doomsday: 3/10
Kinda: 4/10
The Visitation: 7/10
Black Orchid: 6/10
Earthshock: 7/10
Time-Flight: 3/10
Arc of Infinity: 5/10
Snakedance: 6/10
Mawdryn Undead: 8/10
Terminus: 7/10
Enlightenment: 9/10
The Kings Demons: 5/10
The Five Doctors: 5/10
Warriors of the Deep: 4/10
The Awakening: 7/10
Frontios: 6/10
Resurrection of the Daleks: 7/10
Planet of Fire: 5/10
Caves of Androzani: 8/10
The Twin Dilemma: 3/10
Attack of the Cybermen: 6/10
Vengeance on Varos: 8/10
Mark of the Rani: 5/10
The Two Doctors: 6/10
Timelash: 5/10
Revelation of the Daleks: 9/10
The Mysterious Planet: 4/10
Mindwarp: 4/10
Terror of the Vervoids: 5/10
The Ultimate Foe: 5/10
Time and the Rani: 1/10
Paradise Towers: 2/10
Delta and the Bannerman: 0/10
Dragonfire: 2/10
Remembrance of the Daleks: 7/10
The Happiness Patrol: 4/10
Silver Nemesis: 4/10
The Greatest Show in the Galaxy: 2/10
Battlefield: 5/10
Ghost Light: 5/10
The Curse of Fenric: 7/10
Survival: 4/10

The Leisure Hive 8.5/10
Melgos 9/10
Full Circle 9.5/10
State of Decay 9.5/10
Warrior's Gate 10/10
The Keeper of Traken 9.5/10
Logopolis 10/10

Castrovalva 10/10
Four to Doomsday 9.5/10
Kinda 9/10
The Visitation 9.5/10
Black Orchid 8.5/10
Earthshock 8/10
Time-Flight 9.5/10 (the most underrated story in all of Dr. Who)

Arc of Infinity 9/10
Snakedance 10/10
Mawdryn Undead 8.5/10
Terminus 8.5/10
Enlightenment 9/10
The King's Demons 8.5/10
The Five Doctors 9.5/10

Warriors of the Deep 6/10
The Awakening 8/10
Frontios 8.5/10
Resurrection of the Daleks 7/10
Planet of Fire 8.5/10
The Caves of Androzani 6.5/10
The Twin Dilemma 6/10

Attack of the Cybermen 9/10
Vengeance on Varos 8/10
The Mark of the Rani 9/10
The Two Doctors 9/10
Timelash 9/10
Revelation of the Daleks 7/10

Mysterious Planet 8/10
Mindwarp 5/10
Vervoids 8/10
Ultimate Foe 7/10

Time and the Rani 7/10
Paradise Towers 4/10
Delta and the Bannermen 6/10
Dragonfire 8/10

Remembrance of the Daleks 8.5/10
The Happiness Patrol 3/10
Silver Nemesis 8/10
The Greatest Show in the Galaxy 5/10

Battlefield 8/10
Ghost Light 9/10
The Curse of Fenric 9/10
Survival 7/10

Fendelman wrote:
Time and the Rani 7/10

Nice to see someone give it a decent rating for a change. I've always loved it.

The regeneration scene at the beginning was shitty, but the rest of the story was good. I liked the Rani. I wish we had seen more of her.

The Leisure Hive: 1/10 (had I been watching at the time, I think this would've made me give up on the show for good)
Meglos: 3/10
Full Circle: 6/10
State of Decay: 9/10 (only really loses a point for Adric)
Warriors Gate: 8/10
Keeper of Traken: 5/10
Logopolis: 5/10
Castrovalva: 5/10
Four to Doomsday: 5/10
Kinda: 4/10
The Visitation: 6/10
Black Orchid: 7/10
Earthshock: 10/10
Time-Flight: 0/10
Arc of Infinity: 2/10
Snakedance: 8/10
Mawdryn Undead: 5/10
Terminus: 2/10
Enlightenment: 10/10
The Kings Demons: 3/10
The Five Doctors: 9/10
Warriors of the Deep: 0/10
The Awakening: 5/10
Frontios: 6/10
Resurrection of the Daleks: 4/10
Planet of Fire: 4/10
Caves of Androzani: 10/10
The Twin Dilemma: 0/10
Attack of the Cybermen: 3/10
Vengeance on Varos: 4/10
Mark of the Rani: 3/10
The Two Doctors: 5/10
Timelash: 3/10
Revelation of the Daleks: 10/10
The Mysterious Planet: 5/10
Mindwarp: 5/10
Terror of the Vervoids: 6/10
The Ultimate Foe: 5/10
Time and the Rani: 0/10
Paradise Towers: 2/10
Delta and the Bannerman: 0/10
Dragonfire: 0/10
Remembrance of the Daleks: 10/10
The Happiness Patrol: 6/10
Silver Nemesis: 6/10
The Greatest Show in the Galaxy: 10/10
Battlefield: 5/10
Ghost Light: 4/10 (sorry, I just never got this one)
The Curse of Fenric: 8/10
Survival: 5/10

The Leisure Hive: 6/10
Meglos: 4/10
Full Circle: 8/10
State of Decay: 7/10
Warrior’s Gate: 9/10
The Keeper of Traken: 6/10
Logopolis: 5/10
Castrovalva: 3/10
Four to Doomsday: 2/10
Kinda: 4/10
The Visitation: 7/10
Black Orchid: 7/10
Earthshock: 9/10
Time Flight: 3/10
Arc of Infinity: 5/10
Snakedance: 7/10
Mawdryn Undead: 5/10
Terminus: 3/10
Enlightenment: 7/10
The King’s Demons: 3/10
The Five Doctors: 9/10
Warriors of the Deep: 10/10  
The Awakening: 8/10
Frontios: 5/10
Resurrection of the Daleks: 9/10
Planet of Fire: 5/10
The Caves of Androzani: 9/10
The Twin Dilemma: 4/10
Attack of the Cybermen: 9/10
Vengeance on Varos: 7/10
The Mark of the Rani: 7/10
The Two Doctors: 9/10
Timelash: 5/10
Revelation of the Daleks: 9.5/10
The Mysterious Planet: 2/10
Mindwarp: 1/10
Terror of the Vervoids: 3/10
The Ultimate Foe: 4/10
Time and the Rani: 3/10
Paradise Towers: 4/10
Delta and the Bannermen: 4/10
Dragonfire: 2/10
Remembrance of the Daleks: 9/10
The Happiness Patrol: 2/10
Silver Nemesis: 4/10
The Greatest Show in the Galaxy: 6/10
Battlefield: 1/10
Ghost Light: 3/10
The Curse of Fenric: 3/10
Survival: 4/10

Rob Filth wrote:The Leisure Hive: 6/10
Meglos: 4/10
Full Circle: 8/10
State of Decay: 7/10
Warrior’s Gate: 9/10
The Keeper of Traken: 6/10
Logopolis: 5/10
Castrovalva: 3/10
Four to Doomsday: 2/10
Kinda: 4/10
The Visitation: 7/10
Black Orchid: 7/10
Earthshock: 9/10
Time Flight: 3/10
Arc of Infinity: 5/10
Snakedance: 7/10
Mawdryn Undead: 5/10
Terminus: 3/10
Enlightenment: 7/10
The King’s Demons: 3/10
The Five Doctors: 9/10
Warriors of the Deep: 10/10  
The Awakening: 8/10
Frontios: 5/10
Resurrection of the Daleks: 9/10
Planet of Fire: 5/10
The Caves of Androzani: 9/10
The Twin Dilemma: 4/10
Attack of the Cybermen: 9/10
Vengeance on Varos: 7/10
The Mark of the Rani: 7/10
The Two Doctors: 9/10
Timelash: 5/10
Revelation of the Daleks: 9.5/10
The Mysterious Planet: 2/10
Mindwarp: 1/10
Terror of the Vervoids: 3/10
The Ultimate Foe: 4/10
Time and the Rani: 3/10
Paradise Towers: 4/10
Delta and the Bannermen: 4/10
Dragonfire: 2/10
Remembrance of the Daleks: 9/10
The Happiness Patrol: 2/10
Silver Nemesis: 4/10
The Greatest Show in the Galaxy: 6/10
Battlefield: 1/10
Ghost Light: 3/10
The Curse of Fenric: 3/10
Survival: 4/10

I see that you’re a fan of season 22- I really like it too (bar Timelash), and never understood the bile it seems to constantly get. Attack, Two Doctors and (especially) Revelation are favourites of mine, and the verbose dialogue present in much of season 22 is also much appreciated in retrospect (given the comparative illiteracy of the Doctor’s dialect in NuWho, as I previously touched upon in the “series 12” thread).

Bernard Marx wrote:I see that you’re a fan of season 22- I really like it too (bar Timelash), and never understood the bile it seems to constantly get. Attack, Two Doctors and (especially) Revelation are favourites of mine, and the verbose dialogue present in much of season 22 is also much appreciated in retrospect (given the comparative illiteracy of the Doctor’s dialect in NuWho, as I previously touched upon in the “series 12” thread).

Yeah season 21 & 22 are probably my favourites from 80's Who with Season 18 coming in third.

I really like Colins first year but hated his second.

Grade sure fucked up what could've been a promising start to a new era.

I too liked Colins more verbose Doctor, his more ruthless streak(not seen since early TBaker stories) and the black humour of that season.

NuWho Doctors are as thick as munce. Dumbed down shit for fucking morons.

Even "Timelash" I don't mind, it's basically an 80's version of "The Krotons" - enjoyable cheap crap. Paul Darrows jawdropping performance is pretty funny.

The McCoy era

Bernard Marx wrote:I see that you’re a fan of season 22- I really like it too (bar Timelash), and never understood the bile it seems to constantly get. Attack, Two Doctors and (especially) Revelation are favourites of mine, and the verbose dialogue present in much of season 22 is also much appreciated in retrospect (given the comparative illiteracy of the Doctor’s dialect in NuWho, as I previously touched upon in the “series 12” thread).

My own issues with Season 22 are that it seemed a rather unnerving over-correction of Davison's pacifism that often felt ruthlessly reactionary for its own sake.

I like Revelation, but even then there are moments where Saward's nastier misanthropy noticeably creeps in. I do believe there was a nihilism to Saward's outlook and approach, in which gone were the days of being concerned of the 'greater good', and all the Doctor seems capable of doing now is being driven to finally snap once it's all too late

(when Cartmel takes over and finally seems to believe in what the Doctor stands for, it's a real night and day difference, even if it too sometimes goes into the realms of over-correction).

To a degree I suppose the reaction it got from fans is to do with the fact that it confounded what they thought and believed the show's morality was, which was possibly a bit of a blow to their sense of identity as fans.

And the choice was either to consider that maybe, deep down they believe in nothing and what they thought they believed about the Doctor's 'evolved morality' was actually in some ways a self-taught lie, phony and unworkable, and pointed to how sheltered they'd become..... or to just disown the season completely as a mistake so they could remain true believers (which might be why RTD's Who went right up their flagpole).

Many just did the latter.

Basically I think they should've had the Doctor side with invading monsters each week mercilessly slaughtering & maiming the wet human characters in a variety of interesting manner before the Doctor turns to the camera and reflects,"stupid humans, I did try to warn them that no good comes of their warmongering jingoistic ways" once everyone is dead.

It would've made for a better series freed up with that twee preachy bullshit morality bollocks everyone found so fucking boring in the 80's.

Mary Shitehouses - who needs them?

Cartmel was a cunt, who fuck even liked "The Prisoner"? Just pretentious bores who thought drug addled incoherence was somehow profound.

Any twat can shuffle the pages of another writers script into a random order.

I like season 22, not nearly as much as 18-20, but I thought it was an improvement over 21. And I never got all the dislike for Timelash.

I'd actually rank Revelation as the lowest of the season, not because I really don't like it, but I knock it a few points because it is so inconsistent as to its tone. On one hand you have light silly stuff like the scenes with the DJ, and Joebel and Tasambeker, on the other you have really heavy depressing stuff like Stengos asking his daughter to shoot him before he fully mutates into a Dalek. I think it would have been better if it just stayed either one kind of story or the other.

Fendelman wrote:I like season 22, not nearly as much as 18-20, but I thought it was an improvement over 21. And I never got all the dislike for Timelash.

I can enjoy Timelash when in the right mood.

I think Season 21 only really had Caves going for it, and it tends to get elevated to greatness by fans more than it deserves on the strength of that (and a few isolated moments in Resurrection and Planet of Fire). Beyond that I think it's just a very charmless, desperate, empty, grotty season and probably the worst way to have followed up the charm of The Five Doctors.

Yeah, Timelash is a hoot. Hebert is fab and I love Vena's shite acting. "He's dangling on the edge of oblivion!" There's literally a scene where the Timelash is about to explode and Colin Baker hurries the actress up because she's walking too slowly.

Pepsi Maxil wrote:There's literally a scene where the Timelash is about to explode and Colin Baker hurries the actress up because she's walking too slowly.

"Move, bitch!
Get out the way....."

Tanmann wrote:

Bernard Marx wrote:I see that you’re a fan of season 22- I really like it too (bar Timelash), and never understood the bile it seems to constantly get. Attack, Two Doctors and (especially) Revelation are favourites of mine, and the verbose dialogue present in much of season 22 is also much appreciated in retrospect (given the comparative illiteracy of the Doctor’s dialect in NuWho, as I previously touched upon in the “series 12” thread).

To a degree I suppose the reaction it got from fans is to do with the fact that it confounded what they thought and believed the show's morality was, which was possibly a bit of a blow to their sense of identity as fans.

And the choice was either to consider that maybe, deep down they believe in nothing and what they thought they believed about the Doctor's 'evolved morality' was actually in some ways a self-taught lie, phony and unworkable, and pointed to how sheltered they'd become..... or to just disown the season completely as a mistake so they could remain true believers (which might be why RTD's Who went right up their flagpole).

Many just did the latter.

As someone who wasn’t a fan of the Davison era’s overall passivity, occasional skewed morality and relative dullness (I don’t hate it as much as you, but it’s easily my least favourite of TruWho), I suppose season 22 came across as a breath of fresh air all things considered. And yes- it would be difficult to reconcile RTD’s Who with season 22 (or even the Hinchcliffe era), given the abject hypocrisy displayed by Tennant’s incarnation concerning his stance on pacifism and how he seemed to cling to it at every moment (only to go back on it multiple times, and with little genuine recognition of such by the scripts at hand).

Concerning fandom’s reaction- I can certainly buy your assessment of it, although I still find it bloody pathetic that fandom perceives Doctor Who as a religion as opposed to a piece of TV, and that remaining a “believer” was all that mattered in the grand scheme of things (hell, it isn’t just fandom, but the NuWho production team in general, as evidenced by the likes of Last of the Time Lords).

Regarding another post you made concerning season 21- I’d agree that Caves is the only real highlight, yes. I don’t mind The Awakening either, and like the first half of Frontios, but the rest I can take or leave, certainly. The bizarre thing is that I actually prefer the overall tone and direction of season 21 to seasons 19 and 20 due to the increased grit and urgency, although I think that season 20 has the more consistently good set of stories on average.

Rob Filth wrote:

Bernard Marx wrote:I see that you’re a fan of season 22- I really like it too (bar Timelash), and never understood the bile it seems to constantly get. Attack, Two Doctors and (especially) Revelation are favourites of mine, and the verbose dialogue present in much of season 22 is also much appreciated in retrospect (given the comparative illiteracy of the Doctor’s dialect in NuWho, as I previously touched upon in the “series 12” thread).

Yeah season 21 & 22 are probably my favourites from 80's Who with Season 18 coming in third.

I really like Colins first year but hated his second.

Grade sure fucked up what could've been a promising start to a new era.

I too liked Colins more verbose Doctor, his more ruthless streak(not seen since early TBaker stories) and the black humour of that season.

NuWho Doctors are as thick as munce. Dumbed down shit for fucking morons.

Even "Timelash" I don't mind, it's basically an 80's version of "The Krotons" - enjoyable cheap crap. Paul Darrows jawdropping performance is pretty funny.

I couldn’t see the likes of Eccleston, Tennant or Whittaker’s Doctor uttering lines such as “I shall beat them into submission with my charm...” “No more gumblejacks... never more a butterfly...” “Prerogative of a Time Lord...”. It still baffles me as to how general audiences presumed (and still presume) that RTD’s depiction of the Doctor was more in character than that of Colin’s iteration, when the intellectual and professorial essence of the original character was completely dismissed by RTD in favour of a dumbed down caricature whilst Colin’s incarnation retained these elements overtly.

Although RTD’s intention to do as such becomes obvious in that BBC Breakfast interview with Eccleston where he states that one of the key priorities was to remove the character’s RP dialect (which essentially translated to turning the character into a more idiotic version- no, RP doesn’t equate with intelligence per se, but I can’t say that Eccleston’s Doctor exhibited the same level of intellect regardless).



I quite liked season 18 as well- it’s relatively ponderous in places (and I really don’t understand the hype Logopolis gets), but it’s very high concept in many areas, and at no point patronises the audience’s intelligence (with Warriors’ Gate being a personal favourite that seems to get better with age, with shades of Cocteau and Solaris elevating it above many other stories of the early 80s for me).

I can’t say I was a fan of Trial either- it’s clearly lacking in assured confidence on the part of the production team thanks to Grade’s interference, hence the greatly deprived budget, watering down of Colin’s Doctor and the ultimately unsatisfying and nonsensical story arc (although the latter was partly the result of Holmes’s unexpected death prior to concluding The Ultimate Foe).

Bernard Marx wrote:As someone who wasn’t a fan of the Davison era’s overall passivity, occasional skewed morality and relative dullness (I don’t hate it as much as you, but it’s easily my least favourite of TruWho), I suppose season 22 came across as a breath of fresh air all things considered.

I think for me it was the opposite. Because I wanted some kind of corrective made to Davison's sometimes defective Doctor, the temptation was to just go with the Sixth Doctor over-correction, only for that itself to leave me more uncomfortable at what actions I'd been goaded by the era to approve and go along with. It just didn't feel right and for me added to the era's moral confusion rather than fixed it.

And yes- it would be difficult to reconcile RTD’s Who with season 22 (or even the Hinchcliffe era), given the abject hypocrisy displayed by Tennant’s incarnation concerning his stance on pacifism and how he seemed to cling to it at every moment (only to go back on it multiple times, and with little genuine recognition of such by the scripts at hand).

The thing is, I do think Eccleston's Doctor (and to a degree early Tennant, circa-series 2) did initially seem to act as his rash instincts dictated, not unlike how Tom did (hell sometimes it felt like Eccleston's Doctor was closer to the thuggish, abusive version of the Sixth Doctor described in fan complaints than even the Sixth Doctor himself was).

But then with Series 3 onwards, the writing of him seemed to instead fall back to 'he takes that sanctimonious stance now because that's what the wonderful, perfect Doctor would do and should be seen to do'. Even if, as you say, it often was contrary.

Concerning fandom’s reaction- I can certainly buy your assessment of it, although I still find it bloody pathetic that fandom perceives Doctor Who as a religion as opposed to a piece of TV, and that remaining a “believer” was all that mattered in the grand scheme of things (hell, it isn’t just fandom, but the NuWho production team in general, as evidenced by the likes of Last of the Time Lords).

Pathetic certainly, but then a lot of moral gatekeeping seemed to happen in fandom in the wilderness years (particularly among the writers' clique), so it just seemed to become the idea that to be a fan and in that particular club meant having the right sanctimonious beliefs, politics and positions, and making sure the Doctor was always written in accordance with them.

Besides, I think it was very easy for fans who felt the show was now being belittled on every point, to now feel they had to make even more of a virtue of what made the show morally superior in terms of why it deserved to return, and why TV wasn't the same without it.

Even at a time in the 90's when if anything, most popular entertainment seemed to be stressing liberal values all the more- even action films like Rush Hour, Fight Club and the Star Wars prequels seemed to be making a point of stressing the importance of 'reasonable force'..... which I think meant Doctor Who fandom had to double down all the more obtusely about how the show had to be morally superior even to that.

The bizarre thing is that I actually prefer the overall tone and direction of season 21 to seasons 19 and 20 due to the increased grit and urgency, although I think that season 20 has the more consistently good set of stories on average.

I get what you mean. It's like they put something of the righter punctuation into Season 21 (in a way that makes it feel more 'complete' than its immedite predecessor), but the problem (at least for me) was the content it was punctuating usually wasn't really there, and sometimes the gritty action punctuation was over-administered to unpleasant excess.

Season 20 I'm afraid for me almost felt as depressing and nihilistic as Season 21, but it did have the masterpiece Enlightenment to ultimately save it.

Season 22 was a nice change of pace for me. It continued 21's darker tone and yet it felt more enjoyable and less inconsistent than Seasons 19-20 and like they had finally hit their stride with it. I also personally found Colin's anti-hero Doctor rather interesting and they still gave him moments of likability. And it lacks the sort of plastic glossy feel of the Davison era. (As with Bernard, I don't hate the Davison era but it is easily my least favorite era of the original series). Also the wide range stories from action romp to brutal satire to nostalgic black comedy and Holmes-esque horror remains a major factor for why its one of my favorites.

I can't even bring myself to hate Mark Of The Rani and Timelash. they're both good fun and a bit of a lighthearted breather from the darker tales.