Worst Monster Changes....

Out of all the original series monsters brought back, which were the most badly handled?

I'd go for the Sontarans and Cybermen myself....

Nah, it's the Titlurians.

Cunnus Maximus wrote:Nah, it's the Titlurians.

Shit. I'd forgotten about them....

*shudders*

The Sontarans, particularly in Moffat's era. He reduced an enemy whose effectiveness is reliant upon their sense of ruthlessness and bloodlust to a bumbling comedy sidekick character.

The writers didn't believe in the premises of the old school monsters.

The truth is they were mortified by them, so decided to send them up a bit in an 'ironic' way. They thought they couldn't get away with taking them seriously.

The Sontarans in Moffat's era. A complete fucking joke that utterly destroys the menace of the characters.
The Silurians were decent in NewWho, even in Series 5, but their designs are much better with the masks, and the suspension of disbelief is ruined once they take their masks off.

Cunnus Maximus wrote:The writers didn't believe in the premises of the old school monsters.

The truth is they were mortified by them, so decided to send them up a bit in an 'ironic' way. They thought they couldn't get away with taking them seriously.

Even in their first NuWho story ‘The Sontaran Stratagem’, and without the presence of Strax, they still send them up with the facile ‘talking baked potato’ jokes and their absurdly short height. They weren’t exactly massive in height in the original series, but they were practically reduced to dwarfs in NuWho.

I’d still say that the Silurians were worse, though- they were both sent up akin to the Sontarans (as with the Paternoster Gang with Vastra), yet were also even poorly interpreted visually. Reptiles with human features and tits- at least the Sontarans were vaguely loyal to the original designs even if they were parodic versions.

I'd also add the Moffat era Daleks....

I'd probably go with the Daleks and Cybermen.

At their best in the classic series (The Moonbase, Tomb of the Cybermen), the Cybermen really came off as a mechanical zombie plague and that like a hydra, if you cut off one head, another would immediately replace it.

In New Who they pretty much always came off as the toy advertisements they really were.

As for the Daleks, they actually came back incredibly strong in Dalek, but by Evolution of the Daleks and Journey's End they were suddenly a joke again that could either be defeated into literally running scared from the Doctor, or all incapacitated and turned into spinning tops just by pulling a few levers.

By The Magician's Apprentice/The Witch's Familiar I honestly no longer believed they were any threat to the cosmos anymore.

Also, if there's one scene that annoys me in Victory of the Daleks, it's where the new Paradigm Daleks are about to exterminate the old models, and the condemned Daleks simply say "We are ready", as though it's no big deal. Back in Planet of the Daleks, the Dalek commander was genuinely afraid of being executed by the Dalek Supreme and kept trying to explain why events were out of his control.

It got to the heart of the fact the Daleks are alive. In Victory, it's like the writers decided that would be too upsetting for the kiddies and so they just act like robots.

Cunnus Maximus wrote:Nah, it's the Titlurians.

To be fair they stuck tits on the Cybermen in Chinballs wank fantasy for Torchwood.

It seems to be the feminist fitzroy's way or reinventing the classics.

Asylum of the Daleks we have a sexy, flirty Dalek played by Jenna Coleman.

In Cyberwoman we have a Cyber Babe with big metal tits.

In Day of the Doctor we have a female Zygon sticking her tongue down the Doctors throat.

Then there is the Titlurians as you say, and Vastra and Jenny getting it on.

Then there is the TARDIS turning into a woman and sticking her tongue down the Doctors throat.

Then of course there is the ultimate abomination herself, the Mary Poppins Master, Missy who is basically Moffat's wank fantasy repackaged for the fourth time after River Song, Irene Adler and Tasha Lame.

Yep it seems the feminist thing to do is to reimagine these monstrous, asexual, robotic characters as being good for a wank.

burrunjor wrote:Yep it seems the feminist thing to do is to reimagine these monstrous, asexual, robotic characters as being good for a wank.

Now, now.

There's nothing wrong with enjoying a good fanwank now and again.

Tanmann wrote:As for the Daleks, they actually came back incredibly strong in Dalek.

Actually looking back in retrospect, the ending to Dalek does sort of mark a start of a decline in menace as well as Parting Of The Ways with the ex machina 'Bad Wolf' shit.

As for the Cybermen, they were just initially reduced to dumbed down stomping robots from 2006 onwards....

Almost all of them. If you include the Fatleks, then I'd say the Sontarans are actually among the better ones. I don't mind Strax. He makes me lol. Sorry.

Predictable choice, I know, but I'd have to go for the Silurians.  Bad, bad redesign and 'The Hungry Earth/Cold Blood' was one of the lowest lows of Series 5.

Having still not seen a lot of the later Moffat era, I have to go with the Titlurians.

I'll say that the Paternoster Gang were not that bad an idea.

The idea of a Silurian that does make peace with humanity and helps to protect it from the sides is an inspired one. Similarly Strax isn't a bad idea. I quite like the idea of a Sontaran that is rejected by the rest of its kind for not being ruthless enough, and ends up fighting against them.

The humour with Strax didn't bug me either. Its kind of a colonial blimp thing which ties into their origins in looking at everything in a militaristic way.

Its kind of like the Brig. Sometimes his militiristic mindest can be a source of drama and even quite scary, like when he blows up the Silurians, or with the Brigade leader. At other times it can be used as a source of comedy like the classic Five Rounds Rapid, because he's so closed minded.

Their stories weren't even that bad. I rather liked The Crimson Horror.

The only problem with Strax were that they didn't go back to the Sontarans as villains. IMO they should have done that, just to remind people that they aren't good guys.

A story were Strax has to choose between the Sontarans and the gang could have been cool, and I would have loved an adaptation of the First Sontarans. IMO that's the best Sontaran story in any medium. It would have worked well with Capaldi and Clara too.

Personally though I think Vastra was a better representation of the Silurians than Warriors of the Deep. Vastra reinforced the idea from the first story that they were capable of good and evil, and showed us what might have been had the Brig not blown them up.

My only beef with Vastra was her design, and Moff's childish attempts to sexualise her and her girlfriend. I don't mind her being with a human at all, but Moff turned it into Star Trek crap, by making a reptile creature into basically one of Captain Kirk's conquests.

I do agree they should have done a proper Sontaran story with Strax, highlighting how different he was to the rest of his race. Indeed, it seems such an obvious story it's rather baffling they didn't do it...

The Great Intelligence was the thing that finally broke whatever barrier in my brain stopped me from realising just how bad NuPoo was.

While Second Doctor is not one of my favourite eras, The Abominable Snowmen was the first audio version of a lost story I ever heard and it quickly became a favourite of mine. I loved the Yeti Robots and The Great Intelligence.

NuPoo’s version is bordering on unrecognisable, with a terrible backstory that transforms a classic cosmic being into something mundane to fit in it’s reconnected universe were almost all the classic cosmic horrors and races equal to or greater then the Timelords don’t exist. Worse yet they kill of the character as part of a plan to infect all of True Who with the toxic waste that is Clara Oswald. It also pretty much killed any hope for any of the other classic god like beings being brought back in any respectable way.

The Seventh Doctor wrote:It also pretty much killed any hope for any of the other classic god like beings being brought back in any respectable way.  

I felt very similarly about Missy. In addition to everything else, the fact she turned out to be just the Master again, really signalled that New Who was just never going to revive any of the other Time Lord/Lady characters, and we were never going to see the likes of The Rani or Romana again. It was like Moffat had signalled his contempt for the idea of bringing anything else back.