Whovians against Trek- Why the beef?

When I first joined a local Doctor Who fan group back in 1999, I was as much of a Trekkie as a Doctor Who fan, but I was constantly told that Star Trek was something of a banned topic in the group, and when I talked about the show with members of the group, they seemed to have strong objections to what they seemed to describe as the arrogant, sanctimonious attitudes and values of Trek and the imperialist way the Federation went about them.

The closest they came to liking the show was the movie First Contact, and Deep Space Nine, which seemed to get kudos for being prepared to get a lot more morally murky and challenging.

It sounded almost as if some of them had actually been Trekkies at some point, tried out the fandom and found themselves a bad fit with it, or had kind of grown out of the thinking of the fandom and now held it in contempt as a 'folly of youth' moment on their part.

But I noticed this attitude against Trek and its fandom seemed to become mandatory in Who circles. It's very pronounced in the About Time books by Lawrence Miles and Tat Wood, and on a lot of the ratings guide.

It does seem now these days it's a bit more acceptable to be a fan of both, and that might even be to do with the fact that both fandoms have now shared a cancellation crisis and wilnderness period in common, and Star Trek is no longer the 'competition' or 'opposition' it once was.

Was it possibly, just like the anti-Pertwee backlash, born of a need to bash one successful franchise in order to big up the merits, ideas and distinct difference of Doctor Who in comparison? Or indeed was it because they hated the idea of Doctor Who and themselves as fans being tainted by that public association with another sci-fi show they felt should have nothing to do with Doctor Who, and so had to be very pronounced about their disagreement with Trek?

Or was it just that they saw anything and everything in Trek as pro-American jingoism and therefore objectionable?

Or did they have a point about the franchise?

Tanmann wrote:When I first joined a local Doctor Who fan group back in 1999, I was as much of a Trekkie as a Doctor Who fan, but I was constantly told that Star Trek was something of a banned topic in the group, and when I talked about the show with members of the group, they seemed to have strong objections to what they seemed to describe as the arrogant, sanctimonious attitudes and values of Trek and the imperialist way the Federation went about them.

The closest they came to liking the show was the movie First Contact, and Deep Space Nine, which seemed to get kudos for being prepared to get a lot more morally murky and challenging.

But I noticed this attitude against Trek and its fandom seemed to become mandatory in Who circles. It's very pronounced in the About Time books by Lawrence Miles and Tat Wood, and on a lot of the ratings guide.

It does seem now these days it's a bit more acceptable to be a fan of both, and that might even be to do with the fact that both fandoms have now shared a cancellation crisis and wilnderness period in common, and Star Trek is no longer the 'competition' or 'opposition' it once was.

Was it possibly, just like the anti-Pertwee backlash, born of a need to bash one successful franchise in order to big up the merits, ideas and distinct difference of Doctor Who in comparison?

Or did they have a point that Star Trek was a load of objectionable pro-American shlock that inspires willful blindness in its fanbase?

I'm surprised to hear that. I always thought there was a friendly rivalry between DW and Star Trek. Certainly a lot of people who worked on one were big fans of the other.

Leonard Nimoy was going to revive Who in the 90s. (His choices were Alan Rickman or Tim Curry for the Doctor. The plot sounded a bit generic, just the Doctor goes on a quest for some maguffin, but if it lead to a series it could have been something really special. Shame it didn't happen.)

Troughton meanwhile was a big Trekkie. In fact according to Ainley the last thing Troughton said to him at a convention was "Do you think these lovely Star Trek people will mind if I ask for their autorgaphs".

Pertwee and James Doohan were really great friends. They had a lot of shared interests and a shared background as voice actors.

I've always known Who fans and Trekkies to get along personally. I think any rivalry might just be down to jealousy as funnily enough, as you pointed out, until recently one seem to be popular when the other one isn't.

Who's golden age in terms of mainstream appeal was the 60s and 70s, whilst Trek during that period was either niche, or off the air. In the 80s and 90s meanwhile Trek was the most mainstream one, whilst Who was either declining in popularity, or off the air.

Then when the Trek craze finally ended in 2005, DW came back on the air and was mainstream again for the next few years.

I guess some Trekkies and some Who nerds have felt bitter when their one is off the air and being proclaimed dead by shallow wankers in the media, whilst the other is popular, which may have led to an intense rivalry among some small fan circles.

Personally I love both, though obviously I'm more a Who guy.

I will say though that Trekkies are better than Who fans. They are always more unashamedly proud of their franchise. They weren't so pathetically desperate for it to be a success they'd swallow anything, and they never sold out like Who nerds did.

Wrath of Khan is how you revive an old franchise, Eccelston era Who is NOT.

I've always liked both, a lot. I'll take classic Who over any Trek, but I'd take the original series Star Trek, TNG, Voyager, DS9, and Enterprise over New Who.

I think there was a perceived rivalry between the fans because they were both such elder statesman programs. I also think Who fans often genuinely didn't like Trek as TNG was perceived as being very much on the preachy side, which Who wasn't (oh the irony!).
These days we're all in the same boat - fucking screwed.

I actually remember the first British showing of Star Trek in 1969. It occupied Dr Who’s time slot in between the Troughton and Pertwee eras.
When I was a kid, everyone seemed to like both. And The Tomorrow People as well.
I don’t recall like Who or Trek, or Sci-Fi in general being considered ‘nerdy’ in those days. The nerdy fan thing only seemed to come later. Or perhaps as kids, we’re just not aware of it. It all seemed like cool stuff back then. It was great in the late eighties when both shows were being released on VHS.
Having grown up with original Star Trek, it took me ages to accept TNG. Picard was so incredibly wooden in the first couple of years, and it seemed like they spent more time in the briefing room wringing their hands over what to do than getting on and dealing with stuff.
But eventually it got better, and it started to grow on me, as did the other spin offs. In fact, when it was announced that Who was coming back, I was kinda hoping it would be more ‘adult’ in a the same way that Trek was.
How little did we know....

It was my dad who chiefly got me into Original Trek.

I remember watching Wrath of Khan and Voyage Home with him on his own TV with stereo system.

I believe his favourite episode was Charlie X.

He took time to warm to any of TNG, but he was impressed by The Enemy and The Best of Both Worlds.

He never had a kind word for DS9 or Voyager though.

As a kid, I liked both Star Trek and Doctor Who but sometimes found Trek a bit too 'adult' and talky. I still hold a great deal of fondness for ST: TOS, but simply cannot stand any of the spin-offs (well, apart from the animated series and the first two films). I recently tried to watch Season 1 of TNG and only made it past the first few episodes - I found it stiff, static and unbelievably bland- virtually unwatchable.  I've been told that later seasons improved but I can't be bothered to find out for myself.