Why *did* the BBC turn against Classic Who?

I don't know at what point it happened. Or for that matter whether there actually was much length of time where the BBC were even ever that *for* the show.

But obviously 1985 saw the culmination of it. Some might argue it had been long brewing. A show that had lasted 20 years was seemingly no longer tolerated by its corporation and they had no heart to do anything but consign it to the dustbin.

It's easy to say it was down to one vindictive executive in Michael Grade. Doctor Who's not the only show that's suffered sabotage or cancellation to one (Quantum Leap's own Michael Grade was NBC President Warren Littlefield). But it seemed like he came and went in a few years, and yet the institutional disdain extended beyond him and his time.

Even in the 90's when it was doing relatively well in repeats and video sales, the culture in the BBC industry was so contemptful that it even seemed to shape fans in the BBC like Moffat into seeing it as something they had to be critical and ashamed of.

I have a bit of a theory about why Grade hated it. When he was working for ITV, it was the Saturday show he could never beat in the ratings no matter what he scheduled against it, and I think that embittered him against the show and its audience, for failing to appreciate what he considered 'worthy' television. 1985 afforded him the chance to almost win that lost ratings war by fighting dirty.

But the rest of the BBC, I don't know.

I sense Pertwee's era was the closest the show came to being the apple of the corporation's eye. Aside from Genesis of the Daleks, it was the go-to era for 90's repeats. The one time Classic Who did win any awards it was for outstanding sci-fi writing for Season 11. I believe in later years Season 14 and 15 were nominated but didn't win.

And of course Barry Letts was seen as the right man to be brought in as executive overseer of Season 18. I think the show must've still had some good will by then. It did secure a 20th Anniversary special, and its first spin-off pilot. The early Davison seasons did get congratulated by the Head of Serials, and effort was made to reschedule the show out of its then death slot rather than condemn it there.

Then in 1985, that all changed.

So what happened? What changed?

It was just the time. Grade was new, he was Thatcherite. There was nothing personal about the initial axing - it was axed along with a whole range of other shows like Crackerjack and Juliet Bravo that he and his ilk saw as old and having outlived their usefulness and a good way to save money for other things he was more interested in.
It became personal after the press reaction, some of which JNT organised - how dare an underling, and a gay one at that, disobey him to that degree - and the fan reaction. He was actually forced to defend himself in front of the BBC Director General. I'm betting little Michael had never had to defend himself in front of anyone for his entire privileged existence. No wonder it burned.

Was this motivated by our convo earlier? If so probably a good idea to start a thread about it, as we were in danger of derailing that other thread.

I agree with what Iank said to some extent, but I think there was also just a general snobbery about sci fi.

The heads of the BBC hated sci if and fantasy in the 80s and the 90s, hence why it wasn't just DW, but all sci fi that was axed in that time. The makers of Red Dwarf had to downplay the sci fi aspects when pitching it, (and even say as such in a making of docu.) Even with that Red Dwarf was still dicked about to a ridiculous degree in the 90s too.

There was also very little sci fi and fantasy on British tv in the 90s aside from Red Dwarf. That's one of the few good things about New Who. It helped to revive sci fi in the 00s leading to Primeval, Merlin and Being Human.

Not to sound like Genkimonk (not that I have anything against him, it's just is an obsession of his LOL.) I think round about the 80s Britian started to absorb American culture's stigma against sci fi.

When you look at the 60s and 70s sci fi was just seen as a genre like any other in the UK.

You had plenty of sci fi shows on mainstream tv, words like geek and nerd didn't even exist, and men, women, little boys and little girls all watched sci fi series on tv.

Sci fi was just another genre that fulfilled a need for people, escapism. In America however it was a different story. Sci fi was more niche, looked down on, and didn't get a fair shake from tv stations.

Star Trek for instance was a dismal flop in America, yet when it was shown in the UK in the 70s it was a massive sensation.

Sadly however for whatever reason in the 80s we started to adopt their stigma against it. It might have been Star Wars which not only showed up a lot of British genre tv in terms of production values, but also along with Star Trek pioneered the image of sci fi fans being cult like fanatics.

Whatever the case we sadly adopted that stigma, and we've never really gotten out of it. I long for the day when it is like the 60s and 70s and sci fi is just seen as escapism again.

burrunjor wrote:Was this motivated by our convo earlier? If so probably a good idea to start a thread about it, as we were in danger of derailing that other thread.

Well, it had been vaguely on my mind for a while, and I think our convo prompted me to crystalize my thoughts into a new thread.

I believe that 1980-81 saw a few departures of BBC higher ups who had been sympathetic champions of the show. Namely Director General Charles Curran and Head of Drama, Shaun Sutton.

From reading Richard Marson's book on JNT, it comes off that after that point, Head of Serials David Reid was sympathetic to the show during the Davison era (though he expressed concern that Snakedance might be too esoteric for the mainstream audience), but the Sixth Floor generally wasn't, and it was continued more out of apathy than enthusiasm (i.e. continuing it fills a slot cheaply, and saves us the trouble of coming up with a new idea to replace it).

I don't know how much Johnathan Powell spoke for the Sixth Floor when he became Head of Serials for Seasons 22-24, and notably he seemed to change his tune from before and after Grade made the cancellation decision. But he sounded sincere when he gave his opinion that the show had gotten tired, lacked dramatic flair, become irresponsibly violent, and had limited itself to a niche audience. Cartmel has said that Powell wanted the show to be an innocent kid's show, and didn't see it as sophisticated enough to be adult, but believed it needed to be prevented from being too violent for children.

So I suppose Powell's sentiments were down to the fact that the same production team had been there too long, and Saward had been irresponsible with the violence.

It also comes across though that when someone as ruthless as Michael Grade came in as Controller, it really did lead figures like Powell to do a lot of arse-kissing just to keep him sweet in the hope he wouldn't cancel shows that they'd banked their budget and plans on. And because of that, they were perhaps all the more ready to kick Doctor Who under the bus if Grade considered it expendable.

So that probably accelerated the cultural shift in negative attitudes to the show that remained ever since.