When should Big Finish have ended?

At what precise point do you think Big Finish's Doctor Who range should have ended?

Given the choice, when would you have revoked the company's license?

Just before The Sirens of Time went into production.

As soon as the NuWho dreck started to creep in (I haven't listened to any new big finish stories since 2011, so I'm not entirely sure when that is). Which sucks, because back in the early days of new who Big Finish was a good alternative. But nowadays, their real output is nearly indistinguishable from a Dick Briggs post.

There are still some decent stories that aren't contaminated by NuWho shit.

As soon as it was made compulsory to buy them.

I wouldn't say that they need a revoke, rather just a hiatus to allow writers to fully regain their strength and creativity.

That said, there's many brilliant stories that I think 'huh, if Big Finish got cancelled, then that would have been great closure'. Stories like A Death in the Family, Blue Forgotten Planet, The Brink of Death, Lucie Miller/To the Death, not only are brilliant stories, but offer a relative conclusion in the way that Survival did.

The thing is that I know Big Finish can do better. They still have Steve Lyons and Jonathan Morris, 2 of my favourite Who writers ever. The Peterloo Massacre and Absent Friends show that Big Finish can be as pulpy, creative and thought provoking as their stuff from 2001-2013. While I'm not one for saying that Big Finish saved the 6th Doctor (although it enhances his era with brilliant stories and Evelyn), I'm one for saying that they saved the 5th Doctor and made him an authoritative, charming and intriguing incarnation as well as having excellent stories, and while I prefer the EDA books, Big Finish has done wonders with the 8th Doctor, and is one of the reasons why he's my favourite Doctor. But they've seriously been oversaturating themselves with the New Series license and making 30 stories to tie up 1 inconsequential plot hole from a TV story.

ClockworkOcean wrote:At what precise point do you think Big Finish's Doctor Who range should have ended?

Given the choice, when would you have revoked the company's license?

It's a tough one, because there's always those stories that stick out to me as would-be great finales to the range.

Terror Firma, Architects of History, Legend of the Cybermen, To The Death.

But then there's usually some good stuff after I wouldn't want to lose.

I think the quality drop-off point happened soon after The Gathering, when Nick Briggs took over the range and we saw some of the worst releases (The Dark Husband, Boy That Time Forgot, Assassin in the Limelight, Dalek Empire 4.... then again I think the Dalek Empire spin-of range probably should've finished on its second season anyway).

I think in hindsight, Cyberman 2, The Elite and Curse of Davros were the last audios I remember really caring about.

I dunno.

Maybe end it on the final John Hurt audios. If for nothing else, then the fact that he evidently got a lot of joy doing them in his final years of life.

I am less interested in their current Dr Who output. Maybe just the fourth Doctor stuff and / or the Philip Hinchcliffe produced ones from a few years back, but only if its tv companions and not ones they have made up.

Of more interest to me nowadays are the other ranges they do such as The Avengers (i.e., John Steed) or Survivors.

Blumin pricey though. Bearing that last point in mind, they could close down tomorrow as far as i am concerned.

They have lost their edge since the glory days of Spare Parts, Doctor Who Unbound, Cyberman 2 or Dalek Empire (1 to 3. Not 4.). I haven't bought any BF products since sthg called The One Doctor which was awful.

stengos wrote:They have lost their edge since the glory days of Spare Parts, Doctor Who Unbound, Cyberman 2 or Dalek Empire (1 to 3. Not 4.).

Dalek Empire 4 was just horrible. Nothing but a vacuous Noel Clarke star vehicle, and utterly mean-spirited to boot.

Never been a fan.
To me it's exactly like nuwho. Fanfic written by people, most of whom wouldn't have been able to get a job in the creative industry without latching on to Doctor Who and exploiting it.

Tanmann wrote:

stengos wrote:They have lost their edge since the glory days of Spare Parts, Doctor Who Unbound, Cyberman 2 or Dalek Empire (1 to 3. Not 4.).

Dalek Empire 4 was just horrible. Nothing but a vacuous Noel Clarke star vehicle, and utterly mean-spirited to boot.

Agreed. I cant even remember if i finished it as it didn't really interest me. Such a shame because if i remember correctly Maureen O'Brien was in it.

Dissapointing sequel to what i regarded as very good seasons 1 to 3. Especially the seasons with Gareth Thomas in.

Thanks for replying.

The Brigade Leader wrote:Never been a fan.
To me it's exactly like nuwho. Fanfic written by people, most of whom wouldn't have been able to get a job in the creative industry without latching on to Doctor Who and exploiting it.

That is exactly what Paul Cornell is. And he is so disparaging about classic who when he says it in the TVS panel interview he did years ago.

stengos wrote:

Tanmann wrote:

stengos wrote:They have lost their edge since the glory days of Spare Parts, Doctor Who Unbound, Cyberman 2 or Dalek Empire (1 to 3. Not 4.).

Dalek Empire 4 was just horrible. Nothing but a vacuous Noel Clarke star vehicle, and utterly mean-spirited to boot.

Agreed. I cant even remember if i finished it as it didn't really interest me. Such a shame because if i remember correctly Maureen O'Brien was in it.

Dissapointing sequel to what i regarded as very good seasons 1 to 3. Especially the seasons with Gareth Thomas in.

Thanks for replying.

Yes,I recently re-listened to 1 to 3, but didn't bother with 4.

I still maintain however that BF did some great plays early on. The first 50 were mostly good, and many were excellent. They just seemed to gradually lose their creative edge after that.

The impressions I remember of Dalek Empire 4 were that the first disc was pretty good and I thought there was an inspired, neat new idea to it.

Then in Disc 2 & 3 it starts to turn needlessly nasty, firstly with Noel Clarke's wife dying, and then him spending the majority of the rest of the story going on about it constantly and using it as an excuse to be a colossal prick to everyone about it (the scene where he and his soldier buddies have broken through the Daleks' defences and holding Susan and her fellow slaves hostage was horrible, and just left me thinking "oh if Kalendorf were here, he would *so* kill you right now").

Disc 4 had a genuinely great action set piece climax, but it's interspersed by a load of nonsense it keeps trying to ram down the listeners' throats about how apparently the human military are just as bad as the Daleks, even though there's no way to make the moral criticism stick when it's the Daleks they're fighting against, and so the story has to go stupid lengths to twist it that the military are.

And I think that's really the problem. It was an exercise in false advertising, or at least confused advertising. The CGI trailers made out this was going to be about the spacers being valiant heroes as mankind's last hope. The story itself seems to want to turn this on its head by saying "actually no, these spacers would realistically be absolute pricks with a serious case of road rage", but it does it so badly, crudely and ham-fistedly that it just leaves you feeling utterly unrewarded and cheated of what you were promised.

I honestly think it is the most trash thing Nick Briggs has ever written (his twitter account aside).