Season 27?

A sort of spiritual successor to my ''What if then current Doctor stayed for one more season?'' and ''Doctor Who: The Decline?'' series. What would you say to Season 27, would you think that it would restore the series to its glory and popular reputation after a very rocky 13 year relationship with the public and fandom and how would you envision it?

Discuss.

I need to actually have a proper listen to the Big Finish Lost Stories of Season 27. The pitch on them sounded pretty good though. I would've liked to see the Ice Warriors back, and Ace complete her journey, and who the next companion was going to be.

Would it have restored the show's glory and reputation? Possibly.

I'm not overall a fan of McCoy's era (in the sense that barring a few exceptions like Remembrance, I'm largely indifferent to the era), but I like to think one last really good season that built on what came before could've made a fan of me.

For the public though, I think what restored the show's popularity was the rest period, and the old Pertwee/Tom repeats. That period offered a chance for the mainstream to feel fond about the show again and recall memories of how it was before it went down the path of death by niche. As long as it was in continuation however, it was probably very hard to escape that preconception that if you weren't watching last year there was no point trying to follow it anymore.

I have fond memories of Doctor Who Magazine's hypothetical series 27, where McCoy would regenerate into Richard Griffiths

It still makes the mind boggle that after making the best season in 10 years, the production team were rewarded for their hard work by the BBC... cancelling the show.

But Chinballs and Pisstaker get another season.




FML.

I don't particularly begrudge the BBC for having run out of good will. Though certainly it's a shame Cartmel's good work to turn the show around went ignored and unappreciated by them.

After S24, you were lucky to've got ANY more seasons, let alone a further two.

I'm amazed it lasted up to S24.

Well yes.... We're it not for a few stand out gems, it could've ended after S15 for me. But I think we've discussed this before.

Ludders wrote:After S24, you were lucky to've got ANY more seasons, let alone a further two.

This comment is actually against forumotion rules. I'm serious.

Rule #134: No user shall try and provoke a member of the moderation team by making bullshit statements about his favourite season.

I think he's onto something though, Maxil.

Tanmann wrote:I think he's onto something though, Maxil.

I definitely think he's on something

Yeah. A computer chair.

Tanmann wrote:Yeah. A computer chair.

On the ground.

I say what I think. If other people wanna get snowflakey about it that's up to them. Nothing I say is personal towards any other members, and if it ever is, don't worry, you'll know. Lol

Ludders wrote:After S24, you were lucky to've got ANY more seasons, let alone a further two.

Completely agree.

In fact, we were lucky we even got past S17 in my book. 

It was only cos ITV were on strike which saved it.

Rob Filth wrote:

Ludders wrote:After S24, you were lucky to've got ANY more seasons, let alone a further two.

Completely agree.

In fact, we were lucky we even got past S17 in my book. 

It was only cos ITV were on strike which saved it.

I’d say you’re correct in part concerning the ITV strike, although amusingly, episode 4 of The Horns of Nimon managed to exceed 10 million viewers after the ITV strike had concluded.

I do often wonder as to how the series managed to extend its lifespan considering the negative word of mouth that encompassed season 24. I think I heard elsewhere that Doctor Who Magazine were praising the S24 stories as high quality stories at the time as a means of trying to maintain positive publicity (similar to their alleged NuWho turd polishing), although I’ve never gone near the magazine in my life and so can’t clarify this myself. Was this the case?

As for Season 24 itself: I’m with Ludders in that I think it’s largely rubbish, although I wouldn’t say I hate it as much as he does. Compared to a large portion of NuWho’s output, at least the likes of Paradise Towers have some inspired central concepts and fresh ideas behind them.

Bernard Marx wrote:

I think I heard elsewhere that Doctor Who Magazine were praising the S24 stories as high quality stories.

They were right on the money if it is true

Yes.

If the BBC had given it proper money, publicity and changed its time slot back to Saturday then it absolutely could have got back some viewers.

Following this, if for season 28 they'd cast an 8th Doctor who was a reasonably big name to attract publicity, got rid of JNT and brought in a new producer (Leonard Nimoy was interested at that point.) DW could have entered a new golden age.

Remember that the end of the Troughton era saw the biggest decline in viewers there has ever been for the show.

3 million at one point, and that's in a time with just 2 channels, where its still supported by the BBC and given the best time slot. People only don't comment on that being a dark age for the show because the 70s saw it recover. Had it been allowed to, then the 90s could have been a new golden age like the 70s.

And sorry but people who say the BBC were being fair in 1989 are just letting their hatred of 80s Who get in the way.

The BBC made a calculated effort to kill the series in the 80s. That's a fact. Yes its true that there are things wrong with parts of 80s Who, but come on here!

They slashed its budget, gave it no publicity, took it off the air for 18 months when its viewers were nowhere near low enough to justify cancellation, fired its leading man, forced JNT, a producer who didn't want to be there to stay on, put it up against Coronation Street (and at one point a qualifier for England for the World Cup.)

They also raised the prices for the show abroad to the point where no one could buy them.

See here.



Really the fact that it last 5 years under those conditions is a testament to its appeal, and the strength of a lot of 80s Who too.

Having said all of that, I'm actually not sorry that it ended in 1989. It had to end some time, and that was a good ending. Had it gone on into the 90s, the Fitzroy Crowd would have taken it over as they were waiting in the wings, and then their shit would be fully connected to True Who, as opposed to just one of many alternate sequels.

burrunjor wrote:Yes.

If the BBC had given it proper money, publicity and changed its time slot back to Saturday then it absolutely could have got back some viewers.

Following this, if for season 28 they'd cast an 8th Doctor who was a reasonably big name to attract publicity, got rid of JNT and brought in a new producer (Leonard Nimoy was interested at that point.) DW could have entered a new golden age.

Remember that the end of the Troughton era saw the biggest decline in viewers there has ever been for the show.

3 million at one point, and that's in a time with just 2 channels, where its still supported by the BBC and given the best time slot. People only don't comment on that being a dark age for the show because the 70s saw it recover. Had it been allowed to, then the 90s could have been a new golden age like the 70s.

And sorry but people who say the BBC were being fair in 1989 are just letting their hatred of 80s Who get in the way.

The BBC made a calculated effort to kill the series in the 80s. That's a fact. Yes its true that there are things wrong with parts of 80s Who, but come on here!

They slashed its budget, gave it no publicity, took it off the air for 18 months when its viewers were nowhere near low enough to justify cancellation, fired its leading man, forced JNT, a producer who didn't want to be there to stay on, put it up against Coronation Street (and at one point a qualifier for England for the World Cup.)

They also raised the prices for the show abroad to the point where no one could buy them.

See here.



Really the fact that it last 5 years under those conditions is a testament to its appeal, and the strength of a lot of 80s Who too.

Having said all of that, I'm actually not sorry that it ended in 1989. It had to end some time, and that was a good ending. Had it gone on into the 90s, the Fitzroy Crowd would have taken it over as they were waiting in the wings, and then their shit would be fully connected to True Who, as opposed to just one of many alternate sequels.

Oh- I agree with all of this. It’s been very well documented that the BBC evidently wanted the series dead at the time, and I love particular seasons of 80s Who (mainly 22 and 26). They certainly weren’t being fair in 1989 given that the series had found a new lease of life, and as I’ve stated before, the almost complete lack of publicity provided to season 26 anywhere (whether it be on TV or DWM) clearly contributed to its downfall. Additionally, the fact that Battlefield’s opening episode attracted merely 0.9 million less than the previous episode of series 12 of NuWho, despite the latter receiving much greater publicity and support by the BBC, is a testament to the fact that TruWho possessed more staying power in its most deprived moments than NuWho ever could. Not to mention the fact that ratings still gradually increased throughout the season, indicative of a much more loyal audience than what NuWho receives these days.

I believe Richard Griffiths was also being considered for the 8th Doctor at the time, which would have indeed been interesting to see.

Bernard Marx wrote:I believe Richard Griffiths was also being considered for the 8th Doctor at the time, which would have indeed been interesting to see.

I think Tim Curry would have been the best choice. He was well known on both sides of the Atlantic, probably wouldn't be that expensive (given some of the other things he has been in) expressed interest in the role as it would help him escape being seen as a villain all the time, and he also would have been excellent. Have you ever seen Clue? His performance as that IMO shows what a great Doctor he would have been. I honestly think he'd have been as good as Tom Baker himself!

Rik Mayall would also have been a good choice at that point too (though then we'd have never got Bottom and I don't know if I could have coped with that.)

Again though if we'd have gotten Tim Curry as the Doctor, produced by Leonard Nimoy, whilst that would have been excellent, the Fitzroy bastards who were in with the bricks at the BBC would have been waiting in the wings and may very well have taken it over regardless, only this time their awful version would have been properly linked to Hartnell and Troughton.

burrunjor wrote:Remember that the end of the Troughton era saw the biggest decline in viewers there has ever been for the show.

3 million at one point, and that's in a time with just 2 channels, where its still supported by the BBC and given the best time slot. People only don't comment on that being a dark age for the show because the 70s saw it recover. Had it been allowed to, then the 90s could have been a new golden age like the 70s.

And sorry but people who say the BBC were being fair in 1989 are just letting their hatred of 80s Who get in the way.

The BBC made a calculated effort to kill the series in the 80s. That's a fact. Yes its true that there are things wrong with parts of 80s Who, but come on here!

They slashed its budget, gave it no publicity, took it off the air for 18 months when its viewers were nowhere near low enough to justify cancellation, fired its leading man, forced JNT, a producer who didn't want to be there to stay on, put it up against Coronation Street (and at one point a qualifier for England for the World Cup.)

They also raised the prices for the show abroad to the point where no one could buy them.

The fundamental difference is that back in Troughton's era, it was doing everything to remedy that situation. It was still more or less the easiest show to become a fan of. It didn't put needlessly petty and ridiculous caveats on how being a fan of it now required an encyclopedic  knowledge of continuity trivia and an obligation to somehow remain on side with a now unlikable, irrational hero via all manner of bad excuses. Season 21 did all that. It picked and decided the most ridiculous, pointless hills for the show to die on, and not for a single good reason.

Despite the BBC doing a lot of shady shit to kill the series after 1985, they needn't really have bothered. The production team seemed perfectly capable of killing the show's broader appeal all by themselves.

Infact if anything, I think back in the early 80's the BBC gave the show a lot more good will than is acknowledged. They did green-light unprecedented out-of-season specials like the Five Doctors and the first Who spin-off in K9 and Company. It anything the problem seems to be that the BBC initially put too much faith in the wrong team, and so the foundations were kept rotten.

Really the fact that it last 5 years under those conditions is a testament to its appeal, and the strength of a lot of 80s Who too.

I'd say more testament solely to the good will the show had already amassed from its 1970's prime.

Having said all of that, I'm actually not sorry that it ended in 1989. It had to end some time, and that was a good ending. Had it gone on into the 90s, the Fitzroy Crowd would have taken it over as they were waiting in the wings, and then their shit would be fully connected to True Who, as opposed to just one of many alternate sequels.

Depends. I think doing the New Adventures on TV probably would've been a disaster for the show's popular appeal. The golden age of Big Finish however is a different story. If they had that ability to produce that kind of gold in them, then based on that I'd have sooner given the show to them back in 1982.