Parting Of The Ways

Whilst many feel that the reality TV elements of Bad Wolf have aged terribly, What is the Hive's stance on the second part of the finale of the 2005 series?

Great half for Eccleston to bow out on, less melodramatic, has a decent speech from Rose in the cafe, a great resolution to the Bad Wolf arc, teasing a great companion only to kill her, the only time you feel the stakes were real in a nu who finale. Would have been perfect if Jack died...in fact, that might be my next fanedit.

Pulling the heart of the TARDIS macguffin might have been a bit too 'showman', I'd have settled for The Doc getting shot by a Dalek while protecting Rose.

Zarius wrote:Great half for Eccleston to bow out on, less melodramatic, has a decent speech from Rose in the cafe, a great resolution to the Bad Wolf arc, teasing a great companion only to kill her, the only time you feel the stakes were real in a nu who finale. Would have been perfect if Jack died...in fact, that might be my next fanedit.

Pulling the heart of the TARDIS macguffin might have been a bit too 'showman', I'd have settled for The Doc getting shot by a Dalek while protecting Rose.

Yeah, I can agree with your positive opinion on it. I'll be honest, as much as I adore the likes of Genesis, Revelation and Remembrance, I believe that TV Who got the Daleks down perfectly in this story since Day of the Daleks, possibly even since Evil. They're just the right amount of cold, calculating, and yet destructive and unstoppable at the same time. The problem with Genesis, Revelation and Remembrance is that since Davros had more emphasis, the Daleks seemed to lack that punch/manipulation factor that they once had back in the 60s, besides Remembrance but even then it turned out that Davros orchestrated his Faction of Daleks in disguise.
I also like how the story doesn't treat/self-indulge itself over the fact that it's a regeneration story. Besides the last 2 minutes, viewers wouldn't have been able to tell that Eccleston would be regenerating. And even the regeneration scene itself, it doesn't go overboard with the music or Eccleston doing a long overdone speech for 10 minutes, just Eccleston saying that he is going to CHANGE (not become a new man I should stress) and only a couple of lines saying that he enjoyed his time. That's not to say that it doesn't have problems, the resolution is complete shite, and I know that I praised the Daleks being cold and calculating, but their type of plan isn't very Dalek-y and much more akin to a Cyberman plan (would Daleks actually care about the human race and what they watch/satirise on TV. Moreover, Daleks converting humans into one of their own is too coincidental), but RTD just has an obsession with Daleks, and it doesn't stop until he fucking leaves. But even with those issues, I actually think that Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways is the finest regeneration story since War Games and Caves of Androzani.

I'm not that keen on it tbh. There are some bits of it that are great like Lynda's death, Jack's sacrifice, and the Emperor and 9's final showdown.

Nick Briggs also does brilliant work with the voices and I liked the story arc of Jack being immortal. Its one of my fave story arcs in the show overall. When you look at the shit he goes through from being unable to stay dead, you almost wish that he had been blown up in the WW2 two parter  

Still I knock points off for many reasons.

First of all the reality show crap. That I think was the single worst thing in DW pre Missy. It doesn't just date it, it takes it into the realm of parody. Its a shame as the idea of the games could have been interesting. As Tanman pointed out, there could have been a really gripping dilemma where Rose had to sacrifice others in the Weakest LInk game, but its all overlooked, as clearly RTD was only interested in making silly pop culture references.

The 9th Doctor is also fittingly useless in his final story. Its made worse by his big macho shit of "I'M GONNA WIPE EVERY STINKING DALEK OUT OF THE SKY!" He's the only Doctor not to kill a Dalek on screen (barring 8.)

Also the Rose/Doctor stuff is tedious, as is Jackie's unwelcome cameo and the resolution is bollocks. Why does the power of the time vortex kill the Doctor who only has it for 2 seconds and doesn't use it at all, and not Rose who had it in her for ages and obliterated half a million Daleks and made Jack an immortal? Why did no Time Lords use that power to stop the Daleks? Okay Ten said if a time lord used that power he would be a god, but even then that doesnt't make sense.

If an obsolete type 40 TARDIS has the power to destroy a Dalek fleet, you'd think that the Time Lords would have found some way to harness the power of an old box as a weapon and obliterate the Daleks in a second.

Also why did the Master, Rassilon, the War Chief or Morbius, power hungry Time Lords whose whole thing was to take over the universe, not rip open their own (more advanced) TARDIS' and use the power in them to become angry gods?

Finally the companion becoming a god whilst the Doctor stands at the side like a gormless moron as we all know set a bad precedent for New Who.

Overall its probably a 5/10 which is good for Eccelston, but for people to include it among the best Dalek stories of all time is ridiculous IMO.

burrunjor wrote:I'm not that keen on it tbh. There are some bits of it that are great like Lynda's death, Jack's sacrifice, and the Emperor and 9's final showdown.

Nick Briggs also does brilliant work with the voices and I liked the story arc of Jack being immortal. Its one of my fave story arcs in the show overall. When you look at the shit he goes through from being unable to stay dead, you almost wish that he had been blown up in the WW2 two parter  

Still I knock points off for many reasons.

First of all the reality show crap. That I think was the single worst thing in DW pre Missy. It doesn't just date it, it takes it into the realm of parody. Its a shame as the idea of the games could have been interesting. As Tanman pointed out, there could have been a really gripping dilemma where Rose had to sacrifice others in the Weakest LInk game, but its all overlooked, as clearly RTD was only interested in making silly pop culture references.

The 9th Doctor is also fittingly useless in his final story. Its made worse by his big macho shit of "I'M GONNA WIPE EVERY STINKING DALEK OUT OF THE SKY!" He's the only Doctor not to kill a Dalek on screen (barring 8.)

Also the Rose/Doctor stuff is tedious, as is Jackie's unwelcome cameo and the resolution is bollocks. Why does the power of the time vortex kill the Doctor who only has it for 2 seconds and doesn't use it at all, and not Rose who had it in her for ages and obliterated half a million Daleks and made Jack an immortal? Why did no Time Lords use that power to stop the Daleks? Okay Ten said if a time lord used that power he would be a god, but even then that doesnt't make sense.

If an obsolete type 40 TARDIS has the power to destroy a Dalek fleet, you'd think that the Time Lords would have found some way to harness the power of an old box as a weapon and obliterate the Daleks in a second.

Also why did the Master, Rassilon, the War Chief or Morbius, power hungry Time Lords whose whole thing was to take over the universe, not rip open their own (more advanced) TARDIS' and use the power in them to become angry gods?

Finally the companion becoming a god whilst the Doctor stands at the side like a gormless moron as we all know set a bad precedent for New Who.

Overall its probably a 5/10 which is good for Eccelston, but for people to include it among the best Dalek stories of all time is ridiculous IMO.

Completely agree with this, and I’d also go as far as to say that Eccleston’s final scene is also decidedly cheesy and poorly performed. Yes, Gold’s music isn’t as extensive here as it is during later regeneration scenes, but it’s still an irritance, and Eccleston resorting to gurning and pulling a clearly forced Stan Laurel face after uttering his risible last words completely lacking in subtext (“You were fantastic... and d’ya know wot? So was I!”) makes the scene rather embarrassing as far as I’m concerned, and indicative of rather poorly judged direction. Overall, from what I recall from my last viewing, it’s generally crap (with the exception of how the Daleks are handled in terms of their killing spree), and doesn’t come remotely close in any way to touching The War Games or The Caves of Androzani. Hell, I’d also argue that The Tenth Planet and Planet of the Spiders are aeons better as well (I’ll save my thoughts on Logopolis for a later review). I’ll expand more on these thoughts when I re-watch the story further down the line either way.

This is another I haven't seen for well over six years, with no rewatch in sight. It has some excitement, but yeah the resolution is shite, not least for how utterly useless Eccleston is in his own fucking regeneration story...

I agree with English Giraffe on some aspects. The Daleks are very realised/characterised, and I always liked the emperor in it as well. Again, Eccleston has some great moments, even though his characterisation is off the mark for most of his tenure, he's very realistic on the serious side of things, And I prefer my Doctors when they're at their most serious, rather than too much emphasis on the whimsical side, which is where Eccleston fails miserably, anyway.
My main issues are with... well everything else. Captain Jack, the reality tv guff, Captain Jack, the resolution, Rose, Captain Jack, did I say Captain Jack?

I really liked this at the time, it was one of the better episodes of Series 1 and the regeneration from Eccers into Tennant was a genuine surprise. I couldn't sit through a rewatch now, though.

However, Parting Of The Ways, if not a straight rip-off, appears heavily influenced by the 8th Doctor DWM comic strip The Flood (2004), a much better story, in my opinion.

One of the better finales.

Kaijuko wrote:I really liked this at the time, it was one of the better episodes of Series 1 and the regeneration from Eccers into Tennant was a genuine surprise. I couldn't sit through a rewatch now, though.

However, Parting Of The Ways, if not a straight rip-off, appears heavily influenced by the 8th Doctor DWM comic strip The Flood (2004), a much better story, in my opinion.

I didn't notice any similarities between Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways and The Flood to be honest. If anything, The Flood was more satirising how people can be attracted to extreme cults easily because of their convincing methods, whilst Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways just satirises Daytime TV and then having a full on action battle. But, then again, NewWho has ripped off so many elements from either Classic Who or the Expanded universe, and pretended that those ideas are original.

I really wish DWM had went with the original ending of The Flood, they had RTD's blessing, but no direct approval from the BBC. Would have been spared the War Doctor mess if we had.

SomeCallMeEnglishGiraffe wrote:

Kaijuko wrote:I really liked this at the time, it was one of the better episodes of Series 1 and the regeneration from Eccers into Tennant was a genuine surprise. I couldn't sit through a rewatch now, though.

However, Parting Of The Ways, if not a straight rip-off, appears heavily influenced by the 8th Doctor DWM comic strip The Flood (2004), a much better story, in my opinion.

I didn't notice any similarities between Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways and The Flood to be honest. If anything, The Flood was more satirising how people can be attracted to extreme cults easily because of their convincing methods, whilst Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways just satirises Daytime TV and then having a full on action battle. But, then again, NewWho has ripped off so many elements from either Classic Who or the Expanded universe, and pretended that those ideas are original.

Good points made.
The chief similarity for me was towards the final part of The Flood when the Doctor channels the full power of the time vortex and uses it to zap all the Cybermen (just as Rose absorbed the vortex and destroyed all the Daleks in TPOTW). Some of the dialogue is also similar:
Doctor: "...I'm channelling the vortex... it's flowing through me...every nerve ending..every molecule..."
and;
Doctor:"...Every moment.Every heartbeat...I can see it all..."


Just coincidence?

Kaijuko wrote:

SomeCallMeEnglishGiraffe wrote:

Kaijuko wrote:I really liked this at the time, it was one of the better episodes of Series 1 and the regeneration from Eccers into Tennant was a genuine surprise. I couldn't sit through a rewatch now, though.

However, Parting Of The Ways, if not a straight rip-off, appears heavily influenced by the 8th Doctor DWM comic strip The Flood (2004), a much better story, in my opinion.

I didn't notice any similarities between Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways and The Flood to be honest. If anything, The Flood was more satirising how people can be attracted to extreme cults easily because of their convincing methods, whilst Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways just satirises Daytime TV and then having a full on action battle. But, then again, NewWho has ripped off so many elements from either Classic Who or the Expanded universe, and pretended that those ideas are original.

Good points made.
The chief similarity for me was towards the final part of The Flood when the Doctor channels the full power of the time vortex and uses it to zap all the Cybermen (just as Rose absorbed the vortex and destroyed all the Daleks in TPOTW). Some of the dialogue is also similar:
Doctor: "...I'm channelling the vortex... it's flowing through me...every nerve ending..every molecule..."
and;
Doctor:"...Every moment.Every heartbeat...I can see it all..."


Just coincidence?

Very true, that part is certainly ripped off in Parting of the Ways (although it's better executed in The Flood, because the elements are far more interwoven into the story, feel less like a Deus-Ex Machina, and doesn't even make the Doctor into a Jesus like figure, as the citizens of Earth don't even know how the Cybermen were destroyed).

SomeCallMeEnglishGiraffe wrote:

Kaijuko wrote:

SomeCallMeEnglishGiraffe wrote:

Kaijuko wrote:I really liked this at the time, it was one of the better episodes of Series 1 and the regeneration from Eccers into Tennant was a genuine surprise. I couldn't sit through a rewatch now, though.

However, Parting Of The Ways, if not a straight rip-off, appears heavily influenced by the 8th Doctor DWM comic strip The Flood (2004), a much better story, in my opinion.

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I didn't notice any similarities between Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways and The Flood to be honest. If anything, The Flood was more satirising how people can be attracted to extreme cults easily because of their convincing methods, whilst Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways just satirises Daytime TV and then having a full on action battle. But, then again, NewWho has ripped off so many elements from either Classic Who or the Expanded universe, and pretended that those ideas are original.

Good points made.
The chief similarity for me was towards the final part of The Flood when the Doctor channels the full power of the time vortex and uses it to zap all the Cybermen (just as Rose absorbed the vortex and destroyed all the Daleks in TPOTW). Some of the dialogue is also similar:
Doctor: "...I'm channelling the vortex... it's flowing through me...every nerve ending..every molecule..."
and;
Doctor:"...Every moment.Every heartbeat...I can see it all..."


Just coincidence?

Very true, that part is certainly ripped off in Parting of the Ways (although it's better executed in The Flood, because the elements are far more interwoven into the story, feel less like a Deus-Ex Machina, and doesn't even make the Doctor into a Jesus like figure, as the citizens of Earth don't even know how the Cybermen were destroyed).

Indeed.
I know its stretching things a bit, and it is a rather tenuous connection, but this dialogue from TPOTW:

ROSE: "You are tiny. I can see the whole of time and space. Every single atom of your existence, and I divide them".
sort of reminds me a bit of Storm's boastful speech from The Uncanny X-Men Issue 147:

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