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Series 11

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651Series 11 - Page 27 Empty Re: Series 11 on Thu 10 Jan 2019, 1:42 pm

ClockworkOcean

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@burrunjor wrote:Soniqua Martin Green has tossed her hat into the ring, saying we are all sexists for not liking her on Star Trek Discovery and Jodie.

See here.



Kind of makes me enjoy watching this scene from Once Upon A Time all the more.



Makes sense she didn't last long on Once Upon A Time. It has good female characters Big Grin

The only thing I'll say in STD's favour is that it's definitely not as bad as what's been done to Doctor Who and Star Wars.

Though pernicious, its politics aren't as overtly hateful as those of The Last Jedi, and it hasn't come close to anything as despicable as turning the longest-running character in sci-fi history into a horribly written, horribly acted laughing stock for the sake of shallow political posturing. It at least has a few interesting sci-fi premises here and there (even if they're poorly executed), which is more than can be said for Chibnall's bastardisation of Doctor Who. Even with Hispter Spock on the horizon, there are so many gaping discrepancies that there's no way it can plausibly be set in the same universe as the first five shows, so the legacy of the 1966-2005 period remains undamaged.

The existence of an enjoyable alternative in The Orville also makes me less inclined to give a shit about Discovery. If only such a thing existed in relation to Doctor Who.

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652Series 11 - Page 27 Empty Re: Series 11 on Thu 10 Jan 2019, 3:15 pm

The only thing I'll say in STD's favour is that it's definitely not as bad as what's been done to Doctor Who and Star Wars.

Though pernicious, its politics aren't as overtly hateful as those of The Last Jedi, and it hasn't come close to anything as despicable as turning the longest-running character in sci-fi history into a horribly written, horribly acted laughing stock for the sake of shallow political posturing. It at least has a few interesting sci-fi premises here and there (even if they're poorly executed), which is more than can be said for Chibnall's bastardisation of Doctor Who. Even with Hispter Spock on the horizon, there are so many gaping discrepancies that there's no way it can plausibly be set in the same universe as the first five shows, so the legacy of the 1966-2005 period remains undamaged.

The existence of an enjoyable alternative in The Orville also makes me less inclined to give a shit about Discovery. If only such a thing existed in relation to Doctor Who.

Oh I quite agree. Of the three of them its the least terrible. I think that even Discovery's harshest critic would agree that Once Upon A Time would be the greatest show ever made if Peter Pan had shot either Rey or Jodie with an arrow, and Robert Carlyle had then crushed either of their hearts instead of Michael's Big Grin

I wouldn't count Discovery not being set in the same universe. New Who has FAR more discrepancies with Classic Who than Discovery ever did. They don't care about continuity and anyone who does is a ming mong remember.

Funny thing is I had high hopes for Discovery. I actually didn't mind Martin Green as an actress in Once and The Walking Dead, and I LOVE Michelle Yeoh. I guess though someone who is good for a villain won't always be good as a lead.

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653Series 11 - Page 27 Empty Re: Series 11 on Thu 10 Jan 2019, 9:18 pm

Commander Maxil

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@DeadManRising wrote:Hey. It's cool, man.

If spending the rest of your life obsessively ranting about a dying children's show day after day makes you happy and fulfilled then good for you! cheers

"rest of your life"

I'm hardly going to spend the next fifty years moaning about a TV show that will probably be cancelled in two. I doubt many members will still be discussing Series 11 by March time.


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654Series 11 - Page 27 Empty Re: Series 11 on Thu 10 Jan 2019, 9:57 pm

We're not already. We're mainly talking about the trainwreck media surrounding it than the season itself (most of which most of us didn't even watch anyway!).
Seems an odd comment to make for someone on a Who forum to begin with, to be honest!

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655Series 11 - Page 27 Empty Re: Series 11 on Fri 11 Jan 2019, 2:56 am

@iank wrote:We're not already. We're mainly talking about the trainwreck media surrounding it than the season itself (most of which most of us didn't even watch anyway!).
Seems an odd comment to make for someone on a Who forum to begin with, to be honest!

It's shades of the "don't watch it if you don't like it" bullshit. As if we need mummy to come and tell us what to do in the first place. Smack of gallifreybase-ism. Thought police.

Happiness Patrol.
Wink

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656Series 11 - Page 27 Empty Re: Series 11 on Fri 11 Jan 2019, 8:41 am

Awww…. look at everyone here getting all defensive when their obsessive ranting about a children's show is being called into question

How cute.

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657Series 11 - Page 27 Empty Re: Series 11 on Fri 11 Jan 2019, 8:48 am

And you're on here because....



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658Series 11 - Page 27 Empty Re: Series 11 on Fri 11 Jan 2019, 8:55 am

Shits and giggles, mainly.

My interest levels in Doctor Who was at an all time low after seeing The Castrated Man Who Fell to Earth, and that horrific Rosa Parks episode completely killed off whatever little was left.

How you people can continue ranting about this bullshit for so long without getting bored is beyond me.

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659Series 11 - Page 27 Empty Re: Series 11 on Fri 11 Jan 2019, 10:23 am

@DeadManRising wrote:Awww…. look at everyone here getting all defensive when their obsessive ranting about a children's show is being called into question

How cute.

I wasn't going to comment on this, as I hate it when people all dogpile on one person, but come on here. Pot calling keetle black much?

YOU ranted about this show for over an entire year, and as for getting defensive weren't you the one who searched and found the SJW on twitter who was slagging us all off?

You took a break yes, but so what? So have other people. Commander Maxil ironically included.

Besides this goes beyond just Doctor Who. To start with this is a small online community where we talk about other things too. Second, the problems with Doctor Who are symbolic of a MUCH bigger problem in our society which is often the focus in our rants.

Doctor Who now represents an insidious ideology that is attacking people for their skin colour and gender, that is doing about 10000 times more harm for its causes than good, that is pushing the next generation into the arms of the right, that is ironically stoking up racial problems with its "poor Muslims" and race baiting crap, and is also contributing to people turning away from the mainstream media too. (A friend of mine at work cancelled his license, and one of the reasons he listed was the new Doctor Who!)

Doctor Who sadly isn't just a franchise anymore. Its become a bloody battleground for political ideologies. Same with the new atheist movement, comic books, Star Wars, just about ANYTHING these slimy bastards get their hands on. It starts with entertainment, but then it moves into other more important areas (like the education system, look at the joke Universities have become.)

Also I find the children's show stuff puzzling? To start with its a family show, but what are you saying talking about DW in general is pathetic cause its just for kids? How could you go from liking it to that just because of Rosa?

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660Series 11 - Page 27 Empty Re: Series 11 on Fri 11 Jan 2019, 10:56 am

@burrunjor wrote:YOU ranted about this show for over an entire year

Yes. Back when a fresh, new series of Doctor Who was upcoming and there was still plenty of interesting shit to talk about. NOW, you guys are so starved for ranting material that you've all resorted to constantly complaining about no-name Youtubers and bloggers that nobody gives a shit about.

@burrunjor wrote:Weren't you the one who searched and found the SJW on twitter who was slagging us all off?


Actually, I just happened to see that sack of shit pop up on the Google search results when I Googled "The Hive Doctor Who." I didn't actively go and seek this guy out. Nice try though.

@burrunjor wrote:Also I find the children's show stuff puzzling?


Oh, come on. Doctor Who's primary demographic has ALWAYS been children, and you know it. The fucking show's main enemy is a giant pepper pot with a toliet plunger and egg whisk sticking out of it for god's sake.

Not that there's anything wrong with adults enjoying a show primarily made for kids, mind you. Hell, I fucking love The Amazing Spider-Man comics.

@burrunjor wrote:How could you go from liking it to that just because of Rosa?

It wasn't purely because of that god awful Rosa Parks episode. That was merely the last straw.

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661Series 11 - Page 27 Empty Re: Series 11 on Fri 11 Jan 2019, 11:21 am

I was in a "this is a daft old kids show" phase just a few years ago when I was consumed with Happiness Patrolling. It's something some of us all go through. DWM even had a comic strip about it in 1996

@DeadManRising wrote:Not that there's anything wrong with adults enjoying a show primarily made for kids, mind you. Hell, I fucking love The Amazing Spider-Man comics..

Mate, I don't think you can safely say Gwen's cold blooded bridging, MJ's miscarraige, and Peter's devil-dealing are exactly tailored for kids.

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662Series 11 - Page 27 Empty Re: Series 11 on Fri 11 Jan 2019, 11:49 am

@DeadManRising wrote:
Oh, come on. Doctor Who's primary demographic has ALWAYS been children, and you know it. The fucking show's main enemy is a giant pepper pot with a toliet plunger and egg whisk sticking out of it for god's sake.

Not that there's anything wrong with adults enjoying a show primarily made for kids, mind you. Hell, I fucking love The Amazing Spider-Man comics.

"I always felt that Mary Whitehouse thought of Doctor Who as a children's programme, for little children, and it wasn't... so she was really coming at the show from the wrong starting-point." Philip Hinchcliffe.

Go on, write him a letter telling him he's wrong and a saddo...

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663Series 11 - Page 27 Empty Re: Series 11 on Fri 11 Jan 2019, 1:36 pm

As burronjor has touched on (and Boofer & I have discussed) what tips the show over from a program restyled since 2005 in a way we don't like to something worse is the way the media now seem programmed to love it and its agenda, ramming it down your throat continually. Negative reviews and scores are ignored, public criticisms wiped from the BBC website, and the show's lead actress in particular comes out with BS like the old show celebrating 'the white male gaze'!

And whilst many of us on here come & go, from time to time it gets difficult not to vent when very few are brave enough to challenge some of the virtue signalling bullshit the right-on media comes out with (and I'm a lib dem!) So it's a bit hypocritical for a Hive veteran to slate other Hivers for merely thinking, and stating, what they did.



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664Series 11 - Page 27 Empty Re: Series 11 on Sat 12 Jan 2019, 1:51 pm

@Mott1 wrote:it's a bit hypocritical for a Hive veteran to slate other Hivers for merely thinking, and stating, what they did.

It's just a low form of trolling tbqh. Forums are dying as it is, with someone actively disrupting conversation by trying to police it unasked for it's a turnoff for most visitors.

...

In terms of Series 11 and it's magnificent success (said in Magnus Greel voice) every sane indicator, ie the ones not used by the ratings thread dickheads on GB, show that Series 12 is heading for Soylo Soy Wars Story territory. Even this far out from its release, we hear the by now expected stories -- its release date has been pushed back further into 2020, its budget is causing problems despite all the money the BBC should have allocated to Who, and on the flip side to all the little announcements and PR spun at relativistic speeds, not a genuine word about content.

They can rely on GB and the access media to promote whatever the lie of the day might be, but there is no engagement from the fans. I think the Nerdrotic youtuber is spot on about that. He observes that Star Wars fans are somewhat split, Star Trek fans are slightly split, but there is no split at all outside of the GB echo chamber regarding Who. It has lost all of its normal audience. It doesn't even have the same level of holdouts as STD, let alone the "buy anything watch anything" broken minded consumers who still support Star Wars drivel.

It's a turning point for England, silly as it sounds, to lose a hero who in recent years would be considered as iconic as Sherlock Holmes or King Arthur, in many ways the quintessentially British equivalent of Captain Kirk.

Violating the trust of the licence paying public is de rigeur for the BBC but this may in this case have severe unforeseen consequences for them. A significant number of people are actively cancelling their licence over the Who debacle.

Perhaps the Saxon has at last begun to hate.

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665Series 11 - Page 27 Empty Re: Series 11 on Sat 12 Jan 2019, 9:37 pm

I just find Deadman's attitude utterly hilariously hypocritical for someone who continues to post on a forum dedicated to the thing he doesn't think we should be posting about. WTF?
Sounds like someone desperately trying to view themselves as superior, while demonstrating the exact opposite.

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666Series 11 - Page 27 Empty Re: Series 11 on Sat 12 Jan 2019, 10:36 pm

Commander Maxil

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It only becomes a "children's show" when it suits. Some pro-Whittaker fans say it to make it seem like we're all so sad and pathetic for wasting our time even criticising it. Just because something is intended for kids does not mean that it is immune from criticism from people in general. Likewise, many things that are meant primarily for children can still be talked about and enjoyed by adults till the cows come home. Doctor Who isn't a children's show but even if it was I still don't see the problem. I don't know why Deadman would return after a three-month break just to have a dig at us.


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667Series 11 - Page 27 Empty Re: Series 11 on Sat 12 Jan 2019, 11:59 pm

My 4 year old always interrupts our normal weekly discussion on gun control to watch Jodie and always says she's bloomin marvellous then asks for more like this please.

My 12 year old had stopped watching during the Capaldi years and spent more time with her anti-Trump facebook group but she is back watching religiously every week now, scrunching her face up along with Jodie and sitting spellbound during her speeches.

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668Series 11 - Page 27 Empty Re: Series 11 on Sun 13 Jan 2019, 1:07 am

New poster on here, just watching clips of The Power Of Three & Dinosaurs On A Spaceship on YouTube & seriously whatever issues those episodes have those short clips are more entertaining & fun than the entirety of Series 11 & it beggars belief the same man is responsible for both.

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669Series 11 - Page 27 Empty Re: Series 11 on Sun 13 Jan 2019, 4:34 am

Hi!

I agree.

But Chibnall was under the constraints of the previous senior producer or "showrunner" and had to toe the line.

Same as Moffat himself, a better writer under the previous producer than when he was the showrunner.

There's no sense of fun or adventure in Series 11. But that's really the least of its flaws.

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670Series 11 - Page 27 Empty Re: Series 11 on Sun 13 Jan 2019, 5:38 am

ClockworkOcean

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@QuietInRealLife wrote:New poster on here, just watching clips of The Power Of Three & Dinosaurs On A Spaceship on YouTube & seriously whatever issues those episodes have those short clips are more entertaining & fun than the entirety of Series 11 & it beggars belief the same man is responsible for both.

The fundamental flaws in narrative construction that plague his Series 11 droppings are very much present in all of his previous work, it's just that they're somewhat masked by the acting talent and heavy script editing of his superiors. The Power of Three is the perfect example. The episode is only really remembered for Brian, the introduction of Kate Stewart, and that scene between The Doctor & Amy by the Thames - all either commissioned or directly written in by Moffat. The actual plot is just as forgettable, formulaic and terribly executed as any of the shit he's served up over the past few months.

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671Series 11 - Page 27 Empty Re: Series 11 on Sun 13 Jan 2019, 8:52 am

ClockworkOcean

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672Series 11 - Page 27 Empty Re: Series 11 on Sun 13 Jan 2019, 1:30 pm

@iank wrote:I just find Deadman's attitude utterly hilariously hypocritical for someone who continues to post on a forum dedicated to the thing he doesn't think we should be posting about. WTF?
Sounds like someone desperately trying to view themselves as superior, while demonstrating the exact opposite.

Honestly? I think he may be Steven Moffat.

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673Series 11 - Page 27 Empty Re: Series 11 on Sun 13 Jan 2019, 1:45 pm

@Commander Maxil wrote:It only becomes a "children's show" when it suits. Some pro-Whittaker fans say it to make it seem like we're all so sad and pathetic for wasting our time even criticising it. Just because something is intended for kids does not mean that it is immune from criticism from people in general. Likewise, many things that are meant primarily for children can still be talked about and enjoyed by adults till the cows come home. Doctor Who isn't a children's show but even if it was I still don't see the problem. I don't know why Deadman would return after a three-month break just to have a dig at us.

Yes. An interesting pattern of behaviour, isn't it? Criticise NuWho on Gallifrey Base and in no time you'll have a guy in his 40s attempting to dismiss your criitique as invalid because "Its a kids show". Which, obviously, begs the question "Well, why are YOU watching it then?"

Another recurring ploy of theirs is to respond with a poorly chosen example from the classic series that they think equates to the particular stupidity that you are criticising. The argument basically amounting to "Its ok for Doctor Who to be shit because its always been shit".

So you are a fan of something that you think is terrible?? The level of cognitive dissonance is astonishing...

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674Series 11 - Page 27 Empty Re: Series 11 on Sun 13 Jan 2019, 2:18 pm

Re; Doctor Who as children's programme, I think we all know that although Sydney Newman originally conceived it as an educational adventure serial for older children, those who would develop, and ultimately produce, the series had other ideas. This is indicated in numerous quotes from the likes of Verity Lambert and Philip Hinchcliffe, who, evidently, never approached making the series as if it were a childrens programme.

I think to look upon Doctor Who as simply a kids show is to take a terribly reductive and innaccurate view of it. The higher-ups at the BBC who didn't understand science fiction may have seen it thus, but the people charged with making it evidently did not.

Ultimately, I think that Doctor Who was only ever really good because, in the main, the BBC didn't understand or pay much attention to it and just let the assorted creative weirdoes in the DW production office get on with it as they saw fit. In many ways this gave Doctor Who the feel of an independent production and I think it is telling that the only times that the show saw a significant decline in quality is when edicts from on high were passed down to alter the content; "More humour, less horror" etc.

I think the disconnect between the corporation's idea of what Doctor Who was and how the writers and producers of the programme perceived it had a great deal to do with Doctor Who's idiosyncratic nature as a programme; it was difficult to classify and its appeal could not be broadly defined. Ultimately, though, this probably also sowed the seeds of its destruction, as it was only a matter of time before the BBC took the attitude that such a loose cannon eating up resources and causing 'controversy' had to be culled.

Now, however, the BBC takes an active interest in Doctor Who as a 'brand' to exploit and the limitations to the programme seem to be being imposed by the supposed 'creatives' themselves. We can see where that has got us...

Although, I do believe that Doctor Who's appeal to the imagination of children is vitally important (after all that's how we all got hooked) to write down to it as if it is merely kids stuff is deadly to its very identity.

Besides, try watching something like 'Revelation of the Daleks' and telling yourself "This is a kids show..." Shocked

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675Series 11 - Page 27 Empty Re: Series 11 on Sun 13 Jan 2019, 11:13 pm

Although, I do believe that Doctor Who's appeal to the imagination of children is vitally important (after all that's how we all got hooked) to write down to it as if it is merely kids stuff is deadly to its very identity. Besides, try watching something like 'Revelation of the Daleks' and telling yourself "This is a kids show..." wrote:

Exactly. It's like any other fictional world, or secondary world as Tolkien called it. You access it at any age but children will naturally expose themselves to it.

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