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1999 Interview With Cornell, RTD, Moffat Gatiss and others

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https://imgur.com/a/d9mPS

"I'd ditch all continuity-it's dull" LOL

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@Zarius wrote:https://imgur.com/a/d9mPS

"I'd ditch all continuity-it's dull" LOL

WOW this explains a lot. Its hilarious that RTD slags off Ace's characterisation when all of his companions save Martha were shitty rehashes of Ace.

In a way this Fitzroy tavern crowd of cucks reminds me of New Labour.

RTD is Tony Blair. He is the one who revived something old that he had contempt for to appeal to the snobbish, shallow, middle class twats he knew.

He did make it popular again for a short while, thanks to appealing to the lowest common denominator, unprecedented hype, an appalling lack of competition, and nostalgia.

Still ultimately New Labour, and New Who were both soulless, shallow, insincere versions of their former selves, that outright spat in the face of their old supporters.

Steven Moffat meanwhile is the Gordon Brown. He is the one who everybody thought was a genius when he was just a write/chancellor, and that when he would take over he would restore things to how they were.

He ended up being worse than RTD/Blair however. Both Mofftwat an Brown kept up the same shallow, soulless version, but they were also so utterly incompetent, they couldn't even appeal to the lowest common denominator or be popular in a shallow way.

They both made absolute fools of themselves in trying to look trendy. Gordon Brown phoning up Susan Boyle in the middle of the night to ask if she was okay after not winning Britain's Got Talent, Moffat's embarrassing attempts to pander to feminists with his anti men and anti Trump remarks etc.

Finally Chinballs is the Ed Milliband. Both are just complete jokes from the start. They come out with ideas that are just utterly laughable and ridiculous like Millibands head stone, Chinballs casting choices etc.

Hopefully we get a Jeremy Corbyn after who tries to go back to old Who (though even then Corbyn is an identity politics whore, but at least his manifesto was good an he has more sense than his 3 predecessors.)

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Whoever thought letting a collection of fanboy tossers have the keys to the kingdom is the biggest twat of all.

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Fans are the worst possible people to make Doctor Who. They always have to put their own spin on it. I was chatting to wife last night and was all like "how would you make things different?" and before long I realised *I* had fallen into the very same problem. "I'd do this, and I'd do that, and I'd do something else," all clearly influenced by how much you like certain eras of the show or whatever. So yeah fans just can't be objective. I can't even be objective and I'm deliberately trying to be. Fortunately I haven't been given heaps of money to make the show so can't make a self indulgent load of toss.

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Nice to hear from you again Rumford!

I agree btw. I think all the slavish devotion in the world doesn't count for much if someone doesn't have a knack for actually writing sci-fi with a strong scientific content.


_________________
Nu Who: The Beast Must Die.
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This is what separated much of the old series writers and actors from the modern ones, they were *doing a job* like Terrance Dicks or Holmes or whoever, would come in and do it and then do another show or something and fade in and out, like you know, a contracted writer would be. My favourite example Michael Wisher turning up as Davros and then like only one story away is under a tonne of makeup as a Vogan. There was way less of the *celebrity novelty,* and just more general...making a show. And then you'd move onto something else.

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I think the never let a fan write something argument is unfair.

Not all fans deserve to be tarred with the same brush. Look at Gareth Edwards. He is a Godzilla fan and his 2014 version was very faithful to the original. You may not like it, but it was a proper Toho Godzilla movie.

Similarly look at Bruce Timm who did the DCAU. That was arguably the best version of Batman and Superman there has ever been.

Don't get a self loathing fanboy. The type who wants to run with the cool kids, and is willing to sell the soul of the franchise he loves because he thinks its too laughable unless he can fix it.

That's what the 98 Godzilla was. Dean Delvin was a Godzilla fan who clearly was embarassed by it, so he made Godzilla into a Jurassic Park copy. Gareth Edwards wasn't so he updated the formula in practical ways, IE effects but kept it true to the original.

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I really don't care that much...it's just a TV Show. The last time I was an obsessive fan about anything I was probably 14.

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@burrunjor wrote:Similarly look at Bruce Timm who did the DCAU. That was arguably the best version of Batman and Superman there has ever been.

Timm was also responsible for the icky Bruce Wayne/Barbara Gordon relationship

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@Zarius wrote:
@burrunjor wrote:Similarly look at Bruce Timm who did the DCAU. That was arguably the best version of Batman and Superman there has ever been.

Timm was also responsible for the icky Bruce Wayne/Barbara Gordon relationship

Ah true that was seriously fucked up, but overall I'd say the positives like Harley Quinn, Batman Beyond, Mark Hamill as the Joker, Kevin Conroy as Batman, Heart of Ice, Return of the Joker, Justice League outweigh the cons of his time with the franchise.

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He did'nt indulge his habits 90% of the time, which was very good for the franchise.

Also, I liked Lois fell in love with Bruce before she did Clark.

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@Zarius wrote:He did'nt indulge his habits 90% of the time, which was very good for the franchise.

Also, I liked Lois fell in love with Bruce before she did Clark.

The difference was that Timm didn't have full say over the entire franchise. He had a team with him who could reject his writing and ideas if they didn't like it. Really I think this is the sole key factor more than it being a fan. I can understand why people would think that fans are bad people to run a show, as they do usually have their own issues and agendas with the show, but if they have a team to reign them in then its fine.

Bruce Timm mentioned really wanting to do a Cthulu episode of Justice League but his writing staff turned him down at every turn.

Compare that to this quote from RTD.

“I do worry about being surrounded by yes-men. You’re right, it happens. […] I don’t think it’s happened to me yet. In the end, just as good writers are hard to find, so are good script editors, good producers and good execs. When you find good people like Julie and Phil, their sheer talent cancels out the risk of them yes-ing. I suppose the danger is not RTD And The Yes-Men, but a triumverate of people who are so similar that contrary opinions don’t get a look-in.”


That about really sums it all up. With someone like Bruce Timm or Barry Letts you get a showrunner who will probably now and again force an idea they like on the show regardless, (Barry Letts Buddhism nonsense. I obviously don't have anything against Buddhism. Its one of the better religions as our good friend Commander Maxill will attest, but I really don't think it was a good fit for DW.) In Timm's case it was his ridiculous need to see Barbara and Bruce shag each other.

However most of the time they will be a professional and realise its a team effort and not force their ideas on it regardless. With RTD and Moffat too however its all their way or the high way. Remember that famous incident where Moff screamed at that woman he had fallen out with "YOU ARE ERASED FROM DOCTOR WHO!"

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The hacks always claim and hide behind "Who can be about anything and go anywhere"
Er... No. As of pertwee and T. Baker, and to an extent Tennant in Nu Who, there is a proven template that works. Nothing else works as well and nothing else engages the wider audience.

Heroic male lead, heroic totty offsider. The end.

Nurse Who spinoff is dead on arrival, truly the Force Awakens / Soylo a Soy Wars Story of Who.

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@burrunjor wrote:
@Zarius wrote:He did'nt indulge his habits 90% of the time, which was very good for the franchise.

Also, I liked Lois fell in love with Bruce before she did Clark.

The difference was that Timm didn't have full say over the entire franchise. He had a team with him who could reject his writing and ideas if they didn't like it. Really I think this is the sole key factor more than it being a fan. I can understand why people would think that fans are bad people to run a show, as they do usually have their own issues and agendas with the show, but if they have a team to reign them in then its fine.

Bruce Timm mentioned really wanting to do a Cthulu episode of Justice League but his writing staff turned him down at every turn.

Timm would occasionally get back at the team for that stuff...like personally blocking any attempt to have Terry date Max in Batman Beyond because he preferred her with Dana (it's pretty telling the Batman Beyond comic from DC broke them up, as Timm isn't involved with it)

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