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The most miscast Doctor

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1 The most miscast Doctor on Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:10 pm

Leaving aside Jodie who we all know is only there as part of a stupid agenda and thus doesn't count as proper casting.

Out of the 4 guys in New Who which do you think was the most miscast. Its hard to say since they were all mishandled by the material they were given, so what is their fault and what is the fault of the writes is hard to judge.

For instance look at this scene. One of Tennant's worst



He's shouty, weepy, and awful, but would any other actor have been any better with those lines? Imagine Pertwee or Tom having to do that. FFS Tom would throw the script out the window!

However I think in spite of this Tennant and Eccelston were miscast. I hate saying it as I do really like them as actors (and have met Tennant and he is an amazing guy)

I just think that they were too conventional in Tennant's case, and too uncomfortable at being weird in Eccelston's.

Again though the material they were served made any problems they had worse. Like Tennant for instance. His problem is that he is too conventional. So what do they do? Give him constant romance stories, and make him act too human!

When you look at a story like The Next Doctor where Tennant is allowed to play the Doctor as the Doctor he's fine. In The Next Doctor he isn't romantic, has the right sense of humour, isn't being a hypocrite about weapons, is in control of the situation, isn't whining about Rose, and he pulls it off no problem.

He's not quite a born to play it guy like Tom Baker or Jon Pertwee, but he doesn't stick out like he does in say Doomsday with Rose on the beach. Eccelston meanwhile in the short series he had didn't really get any proper Doctorish stories and so I feel I almost can't judge him at all.

Matt and Capaldi I think were both great choices (with Matt being one of the best) but both were obviously let down (Capaldi more than most)

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2 Re: The most miscast Doctor on Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:57 pm

I found it hard to believe Eccleston was the Doctor. He just didn't bring anything to the table and lacked any qualities I associate with the character.


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3 Re: The most miscast Doctor on Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:58 pm

No mention of Hurt? Great actor but just never convinced me. Mind you, the War Doctor concept was naff!

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4 Re: The most miscast Doctor on Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:21 pm

While Tennant is easily my least favourite Doctor of all time due to the incredibly obnoxious manner in which he was forced to play the character and all the horribly undoctorly things his incarnation did, I'd still have to say Eccleston is the most "miscast" out of all the actors personally.

The Doctor is supposed to be this eccentric, well dressed, gentlemanly-type figure. So trying to crowbar this gruff looking northerner who looks like a construction worker into the role of the Doctor is just fucking absurd.

Tennant, while still horribly unsuited for the role, was more believable as the Doctor than Eccleston. At least at first. Had RTD not forced him to play the character as a chav chasing, ADHD ridden, immature fucking crybaby then I'm sure I would have liked him more than Eccleston.

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5 Re: The most miscast Doctor on Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:29 pm

Crapoldie. He just didn't have it, I bought Eccles far more than him far all the superficial surface differences.

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6 Re: The most miscast Doctor on Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:30 pm

@iank wrote:Crapoldie. He just didn't have it, I bought Eccles far more than him far all the superficial surface differences.

Eccelston was unlike the Doctor in every way, not just superficial ones.

He was in love with his companion who was only 4 years older than Susan. Can you imagine Jon Pertwee or McCoy or Hartnell viewing Rose as anything other than a grand daughter figure?

He French kissed her in the finale too.

He never beat people up or used violence. He had a stupid phobia of guns (not as bad as 10 mind you but still.)

He travelled because his people were gone rather than because he wanted to.

Also whilst they might seem more superficial the funny clothes, and long, bohemian hair, etc are time honoured traits of the character. Like Batman's cape and ears, spider-man's costume, Godzilla's firey breath etc.

Now Crapoldie LOL, (even though I like him that was a funny nickname Big Grin ) I feel had a better handle on the character.

He pitched his Doctor as being more interested in exploring for scientific reasons, being an older father figure to his companions, dressing in more old fashioned clothes, having an old fashioned TARDIS, being more Jules Verne and H. G Wells, and enjoying a good scrap.





Now as we all know these plans were completely fucked by the feminists and SJWs demanding that his Doctor be a cuck.

However you can see that had he not had a spineless, self loathing fanboy like Steven Moffat running the series. If say Rob Filth had been producer during the Capaldi era, then he could have been a really good, Jon Pertwee type Doctor.

Older, stern, can still kick your ass even though he's an old guy, and more professorial and NO fucking Scottish jokes or drawing attention to the fact that he's Scottish.

Eccelston however I just can't ever see filling that position. He's too moody, too conventional, too awkward. Then again we know he wasn't happy with his version either, but still based on what I have seen he was the most lost in the role.

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7 Re: The most miscast Doctor on Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:40 pm

Sorry that wasn't the interview I thought it was.

In the one I had he talks about how he liked Cushing's performances in the modern Dracula films because he liked the way he was an old guy, who didn't seem like much of a fighter. He seemed like more of a cerebral, bookish hero on the surface, but underneath he was as tough as an old pair of boots, and could kick your ass. He was like Spencer Tracy in Bad Day At Black Rock.

He said he wanted to bring that to his Doctor, which would have been great. Very Pertwee, and again the Doctor not only being a great fighter, but loving a good scrap is a time honoured trait of the character IMO.

That coupled with the fact that he also didn't want any romance, wanted his Doctor to be more fatherly figure, even grew his hair out, shows that he was at least more desperate to be the Doctor.

Of course we all know how the catastrophic writing fucked him over.

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8 Re: The most miscast Doctor on Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:52 pm

Personally, I don't find any of the Nu-Who actors suitable choices (with the possible exception of Capaldi but even he got on my nerves towards the end). Eccelston, Tennant and Smith are all reasonably good actors, but dreadfully miscast, given wretched material to work with and unlikable companions to play against, yet Eccelston is the worst - completely wrong for the role and dressed like a bin man. A gurning skin-head in a scruffy leather jacket who exhibits practically no Doctor-ish qualities whatsoever and who looks absolutely dreadful - what the Hell were they thinking? I'm from the North myself but all those misplaced attempts at Northern grit and gravitas just didn't sit well with the character.  I knew the reboot show was doomed from the moment he uttered the line:"Nice to meet you, Rose, - run for yer life!" - it's as if Davies wanted to bring back Doctor Who but without actually putting the Doctor in it. The worst, but could possibly be surpassed in awfulness by Jodie Whittaker.

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9 Re: The most miscast Doctor on Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:11 pm

@Queen Angvia wrote:Personally, I don't find any of the Nu-Who actors suitable choices (with the possible exception of Capaldi but even he got on my nerves towards the end). Eccelston, Tennant and Smith are all reasonably good actors, but dreadfully miscast, given wretched material to work with and unlikable companions to play against, yet Eccelston is the worst - completely wrong for the role and dressed like a bin man. A gurning skin-head in a scruffy leather jacket who exhibits practically no Doctor-ish qualities whatsoever and who looks absolutely dreadful - what the Hell were they thinking? I'm from the North myself but all those misplaced attempts at Northern grit and gravitas just didn't sit well with the character.  I knew the reboot show was doomed from the moment he uttered the line:"Nice to meet you, Rose, - run for yer life!" - it's as if Davies wanted to bring back Doctor Who but without actually putting the Doctor in it. The worst, but could possibly be surpassed in awfulness by Jodie Whittaker.

I feel the same way about Capaldi's Scottish jokes and I'm Scottish. UGH I accept that obviously we can't give the Doctor a totally alien sounding accent. From a practical point of view unless you want an actor to put on a stupid alien accent, just let them use their own.

HOWEVER, don't draw attention to it. Ask them to tone it down as much as they can like McCoy who still had a Scottish accent, but it wasn't really noticable, and don't for the love of god have him actually say "I'm from the Norf, OOOOOOOOOOOOOOH I'M SCOTTISH, YOU TAKE THE HIGH ROAD AND I'LL TAKE THE LOW ROAD AND I'LL BE IN SCOTLAND".

It completely destroys the illusion and is cringey as fuck.

Jodie will be worse. Not only is she a terrible actress, but the fact that she is only there because a couple of spoiled internet brats shouted "WAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH MUH REPRESENTATION" and Moffat and Chinballs caved, should anger anyone who even remotely cares about the show.

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10 Re: The most miscast Doctor on Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:27 pm

Eccleston's version was also quite rude. I'll never forget that awful scene in which he snatches a newspaper out a poor guy's hands in Boom Town. I hope he said sorry.


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11 Re: The most miscast Doctor on Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:40 pm

Oh come on, the Doctor's always been rude!

I never got the impression Eccles Doctor was in lurve with Rose. She gave him an anchor to start to get back to his old self again but it seemed much more of a paternal than romantic thing to me, at least until TPOTW. That shit really didn't start in earnest until Tennant, no doubt because Chris wasn't pretty enough for the teen fangirls. Big Grin

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12 Re: The most miscast Doctor on Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:43 pm

The misconception is that the Doctor can never be miscast because (s)he changes, therefore if you cast Hulk Hogan as the next incarnation after Jodie it'd be fine because the character can be anyone at all and we all just need to accept it.

As we've discussed before the role needs a certain natural style unique to certain actors, with a certain kind of British eccentricity, a quirky outfit and manner which one can use to fool one's opponents, and preferably flared nostrils. Colin therefore was the quintessential Doctor.

Failing that, having a scrotum would be a start...(!)


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13 Re: The most miscast Doctor on Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:55 am

"As we've discussed before the role needs a certain natural style unique to certain actors, with a certain kind of British eccentricity, a quirky outfit and manner which one can use to fool one's opponents, and preferably flared nostrils. Colin therefore was the quintessential Doctor".



I totally agree (and being an objectionable bastard, I seldom agree with anyone or anything). Big Grin

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14 Re: The most miscast Doctor on Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:11 am

Eccleston was the most miscast, I couldn't believe for one second he was ever the Doctor.

His character was the product of self-loathing fanboys embarrassed about their affinity towards a foppish professional-class looking character.

All of the others have had stupid twatty dialogue and done Un-Doctorish things, but I found them all far more believable as the character.



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15 Re: The most miscast Doctor on Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:06 am

@Rob Filth wrote:Eccleston was the most miscast, I couldn't believe for one second he was ever the Doctor.

His character was the product of self-loathing fanboys embarrassed about their affinity towards a foppish professional-class looking character.

All of the other have had stupid twatty dialogue and done Un-Doctorish things, but I found them all far more believable as the character.

Self loathing fanboyism seems to be worse in Doctor Who than in other franchise. I really don't know why that is, but someone should really look at it because its fucking killed DW.

If Eccelston's Doctor alone had happened in any other franchise then I think that would have been it, fans' would have quit. Yet so many (I hate to say myself included) kept giving them chance after chance. Why was that?

Eccelston's Doctor is comparable to the 1998 version of Godzilla for example.

The 1998 version of the big G took away all of the things that made him recognizable and beloved because it thought they were too stupid and unrealistic.

His firey breath, the fact that he was indestructable, the fact that he fought other monsters etc.

Then there was the fact that the film was obviously trying to emulate Jurassic Park rather than Godzilla too. Godzilla fans naturally hated it and held it up as the worst Godzilla film ever made, and the people who made the original hated it and even had the original Godzilla kill the American one, establishing them as two different characters.

See here.



Tell me how is the 9th Doctor any different?

He ditches so many time honoured traits of the character for the same reasons, the people making them think they look stupid and unrealistic.

Gone are the funny clothes, his asexual nature, the fact that he travels because he wants to see the universe, his more stiff upper lip, rational persona all because as you say they make him look too foppish apparently.

Added to that the Eccelston era was clearly trying to be like the then trendy wave of American genre series, Xena the Warrior Princess, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Smallville, Charmed, Dark Angel, Supernatural etc.

The 9th Doctor is basically just Xena and Angel. All 3 are big brooding, snarky, over emotional, tortured heroes who have done terrible things and are now trying to make up for it, all meet a young naive blonde woman who they fall in love with and who keeps back his dark side.

Yet fans praised this version, and the people behind the original praised it too. Philip Hinchcliff recently praised RTD and Moffat for making it work, which is complete bollocks!

And that's just Eccelston, never mind the spunk haired Doctor, Kissy, Pissy, Missy, River Song etc.

We just have to hope that just as there was eventually a proper version of Godzilla in 2014, eventually someone will do a proper version of DW, and it will retcon New Who as taking place in an alternate universe.

I'd love to see a story where we have an all powerful villain who teleports people from different universes and forces them to fight their counterparts for his own amusement, and in one he abducts Missy and an Ainley sstyle Master and forces them to fight.

The Ainley style Master would shrink her and step on her in 5 seconds and the badguy who had bet on Pissy, Kissy, Missy would say something like "I knew Kinky Poppins wasn't up to much!"

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16 Re: The most miscast Doctor on Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:07 pm

The most miscast Doctor. For me it’s a tie between Eccleston and Tennant even though they are great actors.

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17 Re: The most miscast Doctor on Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:35 pm

Capaldi. Didn't fit in to NuWho at all - too old to be a fuckboy.

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