Extremis

http://www.contactmusic.com/pearl-mackie/news/pearl-mackie-doctor-who_5692608

Pearl Mackie Unsure If She'll Return For 'Doctor Who' Series 11

There should be a cross icon next to the edit button. I can delete the duplicate post if you want.

Zarius wrote:This was a triumph...


...And no, I'm not actually saying that about the episode, I'm quoting the video game the story ripped off wholesale.

What game?

Rawkuss wrote:http://www.contactmusic.com/pearl-mackie/news/pearl-mackie-doctor-who_5692608

Pearl Mackie Unsure If She'll Return For 'Doctor Who' Series 11

I thought they already said she wouldn't be returning next series?

Wow that was absolute shit. One of the worst episodes in a while.

Derivative crap, virtue signalling all over the place, 90's sitcom style jokes, tedious padding (how drawn out was that Missy shit?)

Cannot believe this shit is going to continue for another week. Viewing figures are going to continue to drop next week.

Vulnavia wrote:

Zarius wrote:What's in that clip that actually warrants a Barrowman exactly?

That "Missy" thing. Really not a fan.

You and I are going to be great friends.

Adam Ant Driver wrote:What game?

Portal

Oh dear, this doesn't sound promising. I've been waiting for the other shoe to drop, and thought this might be the one, with Shitty Missy being in it. Sounds like I need to strap on my protective gear for tonight.

This was actually rather good.

I enjoyed the conceit twist. The industriousness and heroism of the simulated Doctor in the face of the worst news any intelligent lifeform could get, was gripping stuff, and the dispersion of Bill and of Nardole were genuinely chilling and full of pathos.

The effect was to engage the notion, not just of mortality, but of the nature of existence itself.

Oh, and the monsters are fucking horrific (in the right way). I hope there is a national epidemic of bed-wetting after the reveal of those things.

"I'm a scary handsome genius from space" indeed...

Although it wasn't much more than Moffat-by-numbers, I quite liked that. Not as light-weight as previous episodes from this season.

You nit-picklers will take any old onion and cover it in salt.

Has any villain been as badly undermined as the Master?

The Master was once the Doctors Moriarty. He was a ruthless megalomaniac who wanted to rule the galaxy because he believed under his rule it would be a better place. He had respect for the Doctor, but he was willing to kill him if need be, and as time went on the more the Doctor foiled him the more he came to genuinely hate his former friend to the point where it was all he had left.

The Doctor in turn grew to despise him too and wanted to murder the villain. In Mind of Evil he goes out of his way to kill him even when the Master has agreed to leave the earth, in Claws of Axos he tries to trap him in a time loop forever, in The Deadly Assassin he kicks him into a bottomless pit and says he is the one person he would wish death on, in Planet of Fire he burns him to a crisp, in the Ultimate Foe he tells the time lords to do what they want with him!

The Master however not only always escaped attempts on his life, but even attempts to incarcerate him. Thus the Doctor and the Master never truly defeated each other. On the one hand the Master didn't conquer planets like the earth, but on the other the Doctor no matter how hard he tried couldn't bring him down, and many innocent people, sometimes even whole civilisations would be destroyed, and entire species wiped out in the Doctor and the Masters war with each other.

They were a unstoppable force meeting an unmovable object.

Now however? The Master doesn't care about ruling the universe. She wants to suck Malcolm Tuckers cock and gives up an army of Cybermen to win him back. The Master also never escapes the Doctor because she is crafty, but because the Doctor likes her as seen in Death in Heaven where the Doctor knew she would survive and lied to everyone about it, or this story where he botched an attempt to kill her!

Also the Doctor is completely undermined as a hero. This is a man who to start with kisses the Master minutes after she has butchered Osgood and Kate Lethbridge Stewart (seemingly) in cold blood right in front of him! But worse than that the Doctor covers for her when she escapes, lies to Clara and everybody else, and botches attempts to execute the villain.

What the hell is the Master now? She's not the Doctors archenemy, is she his friend, girlfriend? Well that says a lot about the Doctor doesn't it that he hangs out with a maniac that tortured and killed his other friends and their loved ones like Captain Jack, Osgood, Clara, Kate Lethbridge Stewart, Martha Jones etc. The Doctor has lost all credibility as a hero.

Oh and on top of that the Master hasn't been able to escape from the Doctor in over 1000 years either. The Master really is past the point of saving now. And to think some "fans" say she is the best Master since Delgado To say she is even as good as Roberts is ridiculous!

burrunjor wrote:Has any villain been as badly undermined as the Master?

The Master was once the Doctors Moriarty. He was a ruthless megalomaniac who wanted to rule the galaxy because he believed under his rule it would be a better place. He had respect for the Doctor, but he was willing to kill him if need be, and as time went on the more the Doctor foiled him the more he came to genuinely hate his former friend to the point where it was all he had left.

The Doctor in turn grew to despise him too and wanted to murder the villain. In Mind of Evil he goes out of his way to kill him even when the Master has agreed to leave the earth, in Claws of Axos he tries to trap him in a time loop forever, in The Deadly Assassin he kicks him into a bottomless pit and says he is the one person he would wish death on, in Planet of Fire he burns him to a crisp, in the Ultimate Foe he tells the time lords to do what they want with him!

The Master however not only always escaped attempts on his life, but even attempts to incarcerate him. Thus the Doctor and the Master never truly defeated each other. On the one hand the Master didn't conquer planets like the earth, but on the other the Doctor no matter how hard he tried couldn't bring him down, and many innocent people, sometimes even whole civilisations would be destroyed, and entire species wiped out in the Doctor and the Masters war with each other.

They were a unstoppable force meeting an unmovable object.

Now however? The Master doesn't care about ruling the universe. She wants to suck Malcolm Tuckers cock and gives up an army of Cybermen to win him back. The Master also never escapes the Doctor because she is crafty, but because the Doctor likes her as seen in Death in Heaven where the Doctor knew she would survive and lied to everyone about it, or this story where he botched an attempt to kill her!

Also the Doctor is completely undermined as a hero. This is a man who to start with kisses the Master minutes after she has butchered Osgood and Kate Lethbridge Stewart (seemingly) in cold blood right in front of him! But worse than that the Doctor covers for her when she escapes, lies to Clara and everybody else, and botches attempts to execute the villain.

What the hell is the Master now? She's not the Doctors archenemy, is she his friend, girlfriend? Well that says a lot about the Doctor doesn't it that he hangs out with a maniac that tortured and killed his other friends and their loved ones like Captain Jack, Osgood, Clara, Kate Lethbridge Stewart, Martha Jones etc. The Doctor has lost all credibility as a hero.

Oh and on top of that the Master hasn't been able to escape from the Doctor in over 1000 years either. The Master really is past the point of saving now. And to think some "fans" say she is the best Master since Delgado  To say she is even as good as Roberts is ridiculous!

Oh, Bullshit!
The Master was a cardboard cut-out paper-thin villain with all the depth of a puddle before RTD fleshed him out as a proper character. The black suit and moustache, the interchangeable Delgado/Ainley railroad baron with the damsel in distress tied to the tracks, the Master was so generic they might as well have stamped "ACME" on him.
The new series has done The Master a great service.

BobDominelliSudbury wrote:
The Master was a cardboard cut-out paper-thin villain with all the depth of a puddle before RTD fleshed him out as a proper character.

I agree, the Delgado version got by on the actor's charm. Although I liked Simm's initial appearance as the Master, they should have left him in the Pertwee era.

Only 50% Barrowman? WTF....

I voted Barrowman and wound up liking it on a third watch

I couldn't give it Barrowman, it was too competent and I honestly enjoyed it. It wasn't great but I was never bored and never taken out of it. As with most of the episodes this series I'll have to rewatch it to figure out how I really feel about it but but was harmless on the first viewing.

Saw Extremis last night. Was kind of expecting the worst, given the hate for it, plus Missy is in it (not exactly my favourite character), but... actually I really enjoyed it, again. Was a bit confusing at some points, but it was all explained at the end, so fair play. Good central SF idea, scary monsters, a sense of a genuine threat approaching Earth for the first time this year, all good!
Seal was right, no idea what some of you cunts are whining at!

Oh, Bullshit!
The Master was a cardboard cut-out paper-thin villain with all the depth of a puddle before RTD fleshed him out as a proper character. The black suit and moustache, the interchangeable Delgado/Ainley railroad baron with the damsel in distress tied to the tracks, the Master was so generic they might as well have stamped "ACME" on him.
The new series has done The Master a great service.

Well for the record I didn't ever slate the Simm Master. I rather liked him overall. It was Pissy Missy that I felt completely and utterly destroyed the character and she did.

The Master has one of the following 3 motivations in every single story in Classic Who (sometimes he has two or maybe all 3, but he always has at least one of the following.)

1/ To conquer the universe because he believes under his rule it will be better. (He has a particular interest in earth as he thinks humanity has potential.)

2/ To get revenge on the Doctor and prove he is the superior renegade.

3/ To prolong his own miserable existence above all else.

He also operates in the following ways.

1/ He is manipulative and twists people's minds, playing on any weakness and even strength they have to make them trust him, perhaps even love him before disposing of them in a ruthless way. Examples of this include Trenchard who patriotism he plays on, Chang who he takes on a fatherly role to, Goth whose greed he plays on, Ingrid Pitt who he seduces.

2/ He often has a forged alias and has greased his way up into a position of power. He will often use this to frame the Doctor such as in Frontier in Space, The Deadly Assassin or even Mark of the Rani where he turns the locals against him. He also uses disguises.

3/ If all else fails he uses hypnosis which can take on many forms. Delgado has YOU WILL OBEY ME! Roberts had his spit..

Now I think the Simm Master fitted this template perfectly.

Simm's Masters motives are, to conquer the universe using the Toclafane and the Master race. To make the Doctor suffer. And finally in the End of Time to prolong his own life.

He also operates through manipulation. He seduces Lucy Saxon, he tricks Martha's family, he tricks everyone in the UK. He also uses a forged alias, greases his way to the highest position in society, frames the Doctor as a terrorist, and finally uses hypnosis through the archangel network.

IMO the Simm version of the character was exactly the same as the older Masters. His outer personality was more crazy sure, but a time lords outer personality should be different. Its the core persona that must remain the same and Simm's 100 percent was.

Missy however is shit and degrading to the character for the following reasons.

1/ Gomez is only cast to pander to SJW's. She is not in the role on merit.

2/ Missy's core personality is completely different. She gives up an army of indestructable Cybermen, and she wants to shag the Doctor. That's the opposite of the Master!

3/ Its also a come down for the character. Look at your favourite the Simm Master in comparison. David Tennant went through a year of agonizing torture to bring him down, and the Master managed to give him, UNIT and Torchwood the slip by cheating death itself at the end of the story.

Missy meanwhile? Stupid enough to give the Doctor her army without a fail safe in Death in Heaven. All the Doctor has to do is just not use it LOL. She is beaten by a no thanks. On top of that she has been his prisoner for 1000 years whilst he fetches her takeaways, and tells her scary stories, and she only cheated death because the Doctor saved her ass, after she was kidnapped by low grade, interchangable aliens who are so unimpressive they run when they find out who the Doctor is!

Believe you me I think its ridiculous when anybody says Simm is the worst above Missy. IMO they are just afraid of being called sexist. The only problem I have with Simm is that I feel Tennant went too easy on him, but again that problem is magnified with Pissy Missy. At least Tennant had the excuse of he though he was the only other member of his kind. Also even Tennant showed more guts and did try to kill him in The End of Time.

I agree, the Delgado version got by on the actor's charm. Although I liked Simm's initial appearance as the Master, they should have left him in the Pertwee era.

The Burned Master was excellent IMO. He terrified me as a child, particularly when his face appeared on the grandfather clock.

Also I think Ainley had lots of greats stories like Survival and The Mark of the Rani. I even liked the Roberts Master too. I don't get the hate for his version of the character at all TBH. He was really quite creepy in cases like when he pulled his own finger nail off. I always get creeped out by that bit.

Simm was a brilliant Master too, but its just that the Last of the Time Lords and The End of Time were kind of crap. Even then I liked most of Last of the Time Lords, its just the Jesus Doctor resolution where it all falls apart rather spectacularly. The Sound of Drums is a classic though. I loved Tennant and Simm's confrontation on the phone.

Missy is the only terrible incarnation of the character.

Even without the pandering gender change and Michelle Gomez's miscasting she is a pretty shitty archenemy when you think about it.

She can't escape from the vault in the 1000 years she's been locked up. She was captured and would have been killed by aliens so pathetic they run away as soon as they look into the Doctors history.

Her first masterplan is to create an army of Cybermen to give to the Doctor because she actually thinks the Doctor of all people would want to use a race of Cyberzombies to conquer the universe? And again she doesn't even have a fail safe so all the Doctor has to do is just blow them up without any effort.

Her other masterplan meanwhile is to bring the Doctor and Clara together because the Doctor will love her so much that he will destroy the universe to save Clara. Of course not only does that not happen, but Clara actually through retconning bullshit makes the Doctor the hero he is, and saves him in every story. Thus Missy is actually responsible for all of her own past defeats. And on top of that Clara becomes a super hero in her own right.

Also what the fuck is her motivation? Again at least previous Masters were working towards something. Power, survival, even just revenge. What does she do? She is just an asshole who shoots extra's and says "I'M CRAAAAZY".

The only thing she did was kill Osgood which was pointless as there are now TWO Osgoods anyway.

Also how is she a challenge to the Doctor which you know an archenemy should be? All she has done is introduce him to a companion, give him a Cyber army, save him from the Daleks, snog him 5 times, beg him to save her, and eaten a couple of carry outs with him. Hardly the same as Roberts who took over his companion, nearly drained his life, murdered two companions, and tried to smash his head in with a blunt instrument.

She is so fucking lame its not true. TBH I think that had it not been for the gender change hardly anyone would defend her. Whilst I am sure she has some genuine fans, I think most people only don't point out how stupid she is because she is the first female Master and they are scared of being called sexist. Thus we get ludicrous things like "she channels Delgado"

I voted Barrowman and I didn't mean to.

iank wrote:
Saw Extremis last night. Was kind of expecting the worst, given the hate for it, plus Missy is in it (not exactly my favourite character), but... actually I really enjoyed it, again. Was a bit confusing at some points, but it was all explained at the end, so fair play. Good central SF idea, scary monsters, a sense of a genuine threat approaching Earth for the first time this year, all good!
Seal was right, no idea what some of you cunts are whining at!

I'd understand if the virtual reality twist was the resolution to the story but we know the creatures will be in the real world next week. I thought that by the standards of nuwho, the twist was quite clever, though I don't fully understand how it worked in the end. Even virtual Doctors are psycically linked?

Pros
*The numbers scene was pretty effective, as was people killing themselves when finding out they weren't real.
*We got to know a little more about Nardole.
*It advanced the vault and oath plotlines semi-naturally, even if we did call what was in the vault weeks ago.
*Solid performances and sci-fi concept.

Cons
*The Doctor borrowing eyesight from his future was dumb.
*Missy flashbacks seemed forced, but we'll have to see how it plays out before judging.
*The book was a big focus of the plot but was actually useless or wasn't well explained.

I think we're all gonna miss Capaldi when he leaves.

burrunjor wrote:1/ Gomez is only cast to pander to SJW's. She is not in the role on merit.

I think you might be letting the level of writing influence your opinion of the performer. If Gomez appeared as Missy in series 3 with pretty much the same scripts as Simm had, would you still be making the same fuss? On pretty much every point you've brought up, Gomez's miscasting all come down the what the scripts have had her do rather than how she is as an actor.

You've said Simm's Master is a decent version of the character, and while that may be right, I thought Simm was awful in the role. For all the writing may have got right, he was always wrong for the role for me in the same way as the ninth Doctor.

I hate the Missy character and have criticised the actress because she seems to drop in and out of her Scottish accent, but other than that I can't fault her on her portrayal. She plays a deceptive and unpredictable villain well, it's just a shame the writing for her isn't up to the same level.

You can argue that turning the Master into Missy was politically driven but that doesn't mean Gomez didn't get the part of Missy on merit.