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Season 23: Too Neutered?

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Tanmann
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Ludders
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1Season 23: Too Neutered? Empty Season 23: Too Neutered? 4th November 2019, 12:40 pm

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After the outcry and controversy over Season 22 as well as Michael Grade and the BBC's anti sci fi agenda, Doctor Who went on an 18 month hiatus and came back with a slightly different series than originally planned.

Season 23 is regarded as the most infamous season of the original series with its trial plot, cheap production values and forced lighter tone as well as all the behind the scenes drama. but what is your stance on it?


My ratings

The Mysterious Planet: 3/5
Mindwarp: 2/5
Terror Of The Vervoids: 3.5/5
Ultimate Foe: 2.5/5

2Season 23: Too Neutered? Empty Re: Season 23: Too Neutered? 4th November 2019, 1:17 pm

Ludders

Ludders

I've never got the love for this season. Only S24 is worse.
Vervoids is barely passable, but it's the best of a bad bunch.

3Season 23: Too Neutered? Empty Re: Season 23: Too Neutered? 4th November 2019, 1:35 pm

Boofer

Boofer

I don't mind Trial. It's not as awful as some say it is. It's a bit trendy to do it down.

The Mysterious Planet: 6/10

Mindwarp: 5/10

Terror Of The Vervoids: 6/10

Ultimate Foe: 7/10

4Season 23: Too Neutered? Empty Re: Season 23: Too Neutered? 4th November 2019, 1:38 pm

Tanmann

Tanmann
Dick Tater

I don't think it's a terrible season, but it is a rather vanilla one. There are some rich ideas in there and a real sense of temporal vertigo. But a lot of that potential is wasted, it's frequently overindulgent and laced with irritating courtroom interruptions, and often bores me to distraction. And ultimately it just seems to go nowhere and be forgotten about.

I don't know if I'd say it's neutered, as the abuse and killing of Peri in Mindwarp is possibly the most horrifying moment of the 80's. Almost more horrifying than Resurrection. Yeah I just found Mindwarp a rather nasty mess that I wish had never been made.

I'd probably concur that Terror of the Vervoids was the best offering here.

I also think in a way it's the reason Colin wasn't terribly missed when his run was cut short. I think by the end of this season he'd lost a lot of his intrigue and, because of the courtroom scenes on top of the main action, he'd been a bit overindulged and overexposed too quickly.

5Season 23: Too Neutered? Empty Re: Season 23: Too Neutered? 4th November 2019, 3:59 pm

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Tanmann wrote:I don't know if I'd say it's neutered, as the abuse and killing of Peri in Mindwarp is possibly the most horrifying moment of the 80's. Almost more horrifying than Resurrection. Yeah I just found Mindwarp a rather nasty mess that I wish had never been made.

Mindwarp aside, most of Season 23 feels a lot more lighthearted and humour filled after the complaints about Season 22 (and 21 to a lesser extent) being too dark and violent.

But yeah, Mindwarp is pretty grim and messy and feels like a remnant of the previous season.

6Season 23: Too Neutered? Empty Re: Season 23: Too Neutered? 4th November 2019, 6:31 pm

Tanmann

Tanmann
Dick Tater

Indrid Mercury wrote:Mindwarp aside, most of Season 23 feels a lot more lighthearted and humour filled after the complaints about Season 22 (and 21 to a lesser extent) being too dark and violent.

Well there certainly seemed to be a lot of BBC dictates demanding the tonal change that season.

I do however think that the direction of travel for the JNT seasons generally was light-hearted, and most of the story commissions were light-hearted. But it was Saward who wanted to put a more violent, nastier distortion on scripts for the sake of edginess and push for a more violent direction (and to a degree, Bidmead wanted to push things darker too).

Ironically, Nightmare Fair and Mission to Magnus make it seem like the show was naturally going toward a more light-hearted direction even before Grade and Powell interfered, but thinking about it, I suspect that's because they were as yet untreated by Saward, and in the final event we would've somewhere in that season gotten Saward's nastier content smuggled in still.

But yeah, Mindwarp is pretty grim and messy and feels like a remnant of the previous season.

To be honest I think Mindwarp is nihilistic in a whole new way that even Season 22 never was. It feels more like a continuation of the version of Season 22 that people didn't actually see but just heard about in the tabloid papers and assumed all the worst things about.

7Season 23: Too Neutered? Empty Re: Season 23: Too Neutered? 4th November 2019, 7:26 pm

SomeCallMeEnglishGiraffe

SomeCallMeEnglishGiraffe

I'm going to be the controversial one here and say that I love Season 23 and say that it's one of my favourite Seasons/Series in Who. Colin is still as loveable playing the cocky hero and has a kinder heart, but not to the point of him being a different character. The production values may have taken a miss compared to past Seasons, but I actually like it's fast pace and explosive action (that carries over to the McCoy era). This is also the first Season where I adore the music (not saying that I didn't enjoy past Seasons music, especially in the 80s, but I just enjoy the compositions and instruments here more). And lastly, my most controversial opinion: The Valeyard is my favourite villain in the franchise and I prefer him being the polar opposite to the Doctor over The Master.

The Mysterious Planet is an underrated story. Whilst the stakes aren't presented as high as much as the story wants to, Robert Holmes still manages to add witty dialogue, and there's still a sense of adventure and fascinating worldbuilding. The location filming is blissful (although I'm biased to the Autumn setting), and the ideas are imaginative. The only thing that I don't buy is the 2 boys and their acting (which are better than the kids in the Twin Dilemma, but it's still not great).

Mindwarp gets a bad wrap, but I love it and it's one of my favourite Colin stories. The point of 6's characterisation is that the machine has made him completely insane, the point where he was during in his post-regeneration in Twin Dilemma, and he's trying to regain his mind back again. Perhaps it would have been nice to have a few more stories that showed how far he had come in terms of development (because he has definitely grown but there needed to be more). The outdoor sections of the planet are the most gorgeous locations (and I wished that many planets had as much vibrant sky colours in the Series). Brian Blessed is deliciously entertaining. Sil is just as great as in Vengeance on Varos, The Timelords are the most ominous and threatening they have been since The War Games and the last 5 minutes are the most brilliant and have the most dramatic performances in Who History, with Colin bringing his best performance.

Terror of the Vervoids is Pip and Jane's best script by a fucking country mile. The set design is lush and vivid, I like the moral quandary with the Doctor trying to reason with the Vervoids, but is then forced to murder them, Mel is a underrated companion and I enjoy her peppy attitude, there's a good murder mystery vibe that left me guessing who the culprit was the first time, as a murder mystery should and I enjoy the tone of it. The Trial scenes were definitely getting obtrusive by this point though.

The Ultimate Foe is a rather mixed bag. Part 1 is excellent. A wonderful gothic atmosphere, the Matrix is just as imaginative and surreal as it was in The Deadly Assasin, the twist with the Valeyard may be the most fascinating twist in all of Who, the wonderful direction makes scenes feel foreboding and menacing, the cliffhanger is gorgeously terrifying and Glitz adds great comedy. But Part 2 feels disappointing compared to the first part. The Master feels like an unnecessary addition to the story, the surreal nature is thrown off for science technobabble and the climax feels anticlimactic. But I still found the whole story entertaining for the most part.

8Season 23: Too Neutered? Empty Re: Season 23: Too Neutered? 4th November 2019, 8:33 pm

Bernard Marx

Bernard Marx

I’ll probably just add ratings out of 10 here too:
The Mysterious Planet: 5/10
Mindwarp: 3/10
Terror of the Vervoids: 5/10
The Ultimate Foe: 6.5/10

It’s a very troubled season, and certainly inferior to season 22 due to the tonal inconsistency, significantly deprived budget, a watered down Colin Baker who seems to have lost his bite for little narrative reason, and poorly maintained continuity through Mel’s introduction (we’re never shown where the fuck she comes from). Mindwarp suffers especially from such tonal issues, and some unbelievably hammy performances which contrast badly with the dark tone at hand, whilst the first and third instalments are very lightweight. Ultimate Foe has a rather atmospheric opening episode which I do admittedly really like, though it’s follow up is just muddled.

9Season 23: Too Neutered? Empty Re: Season 23: Too Neutered? 4th November 2019, 8:47 pm

iank

iank

It's pretty bad, and the Trial format itself should never have been done. Vervoids actually works pretty well outside of it, as the Blu ray SE shows, though it's difficult to understand why the season looks so damn cheap throughout when the same factors (like being all video) apply to the McCoy era, which still looks ten times more glossy and expensive than this.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKNC69I8Mq_pJfvBireybsg

10Season 23: Too Neutered? Empty Re: Season 23: Too Neutered? 4th November 2019, 11:03 pm

BillPatJonTom

BillPatJonTom

Season 23 - the worst thing about it, and something that doesn't seem to be mentioned quite as much as all the criticism of the trial format, is the fact that the series returned only with a drastically abbreviated season. Only 14 poxy episodes! The series was never the same again for better or worse - mainly worse.

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