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UK General Election 2019

+13
Pepsi Maxil
Ludders
Tanmann
Boofer
Ken Grubshaw
Bernard Marx
TiberiusDidNothingWrong
Bill
burrunjor
Rawkuss
REDACTED
Doctor7
ClockworkOcean
17 posters

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Who do you intend to vote for?

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Total Votes : 19


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26UK General Election 2019 - Page 2 Empty Re: UK General Election 2019 7th November 2019, 11:43 am

Tanmann

Tanmann
Dick Tater

I'm tempted to abstain myself.

Labour's probably a sure win in my ward, but I don't want any part in that victory. I still don't think Corbyn can be trusted an inch with our national security regarding terrorist prevention (because I don't think he can bring himself to see white westerners as victims). If his ultra-left government leads to avoidable deaths like Sweden's has, I don't want to say I helped get him elected.

27UK General Election 2019 - Page 2 Empty Re: UK General Election 2019 7th November 2019, 1:46 pm

Boofer

Boofer

Tanmann wrote:I don't want any part in that victory. I still don't think Corbyn can be trusted an inch with our national security regarding terrorist prevention (because I don't think he can bring himself to see white westerners as victims).

LOL If he was such a security risk he wouldn't be on the privy council.

None of the recently exhumed and recycled accusations hold any weight at all and are just politicking from Tory ex-members of the security services.

The rest of what you said and its conflation with the Swedish socialists is a hot mess of regurgitated PJW-type crap and Tory rag red-baiting.

Corbyn is only defined as 'hard left' because the establishment can't bear the thought of neoliberalism and gross top-down inequality being challenged. You should read Chris Mullin's excellent book, A Very British Coup, which is as pertinent now as it ever was.

Corbyn is only radical in the sense that he believes in bi-lateral dialogue, is anti-MIC, and wants to people - yes including white people Rolling Eyes  - to be able to have a home and a job without having to struggle, while the establishment want to retain a model that squeezes workers' labour costs, rights and benefits for the advantage of shareholders and other arsehole leeches in our society.

28UK General Election 2019 - Page 2 Empty Re: UK General Election 2019 7th November 2019, 2:56 pm

Tanmann

Tanmann
Dick Tater

Cunnus Maximus wrote:
Tanmann wrote:I don't want any part in that victory. I still don't think Corbyn can be trusted an inch with our national security regarding terrorist prevention (because I don't think he can bring himself to see white westerners as victims).

LOL If he was such a security risk he wouldn't be on the privy council.

None of the recently exhumed and recycled accusations hold any weight at all and are just politicking from Tory ex-members of the security services.

The rest of what you said and its conflation with the Swedish socialists is a hot mess of regurgitated PJW-type crap and Tory rag red-baiting.

Corbyn is only defined as 'hard left' because the establishment can't bear the thought of neoliberalism and gross top-down inequality being challenged. You should read Chris Mullin's excellent book, A Very British Coup, which is as pertinent now as it ever was.

Corbyn is only radical in the sense that he believes in bi-lateral dialogue, is anti-MIC, and wants to people - yes including white people Rolling Eyes  - to be able to have a home and a job without having to struggle, while the establishment want to retain a model that squeezes workers' labour costs, rights and benefits for the advantage of shareholders and other arsehole leeches in our society.

Well it's not just Tories who pick over his questionable sympathies. Nick Cohen has done so, and he had a fairly decent history on the Left (though parted ways with them during the War on Terror years), and knows Corbyn's tribe, and I certainly can't imagine he wants the Tories to win. Likewise I don't think James O'Brien is any Tory shill.

There may have been a lot of nonsense spewed by the PJW's about Sweden, but unfortunately I think the Stockholm attack and how easily it could've otherwise been prevented, has vindicated at least some of it IMO. The ultra-left in power can be a problem for legislative powers to combat terrorism, just by being their usual stubborn and difficult selves.

I don't think it's that laughable to say Corbyn doesn't have much regard for white western victims of terror, when he seemed more horrified about the killing of Jihadi John than any of his aid worker victims.

I will give that Chris Mullin book a look, nonetheless. I am certainly no fan of what the Tories have been doing to the country. But it just seems to be a case of pick who's less of a liability this election.

29UK General Election 2019 - Page 2 Empty Re: UK General Election 2019 7th November 2019, 3:03 pm

Pepsi Maxil

Pepsi Maxil
The Grand Master

Can I still vote for The Racial Preservation Society?

























Why are you all looking at your computer screens like that?

30UK General Election 2019 - Page 2 Empty Re: UK General Election 2019 7th November 2019, 3:07 pm

Pepsi Maxil

Pepsi Maxil
The Grand Master

Is it OK to be turned on by Jo Swinson?

31UK General Election 2019 - Page 2 Empty Re: UK General Election 2019 7th November 2019, 4:47 pm

TiberiusDidNothingWrong

TiberiusDidNothingWrong
Dick Tater

Tanmann wrote:

I think the problem is, it sounded like someone scrambling for an excuse as to why the tragedy happened and ways to dodge acknowledging the incompetence that made it happen except to focus on the firefighters. It's like he would rather blame it on anything else, and from that, some have concluded that he was blaming the victims.

The issue for me (and probably what should be made the issue more sincerely) isn't so much that he dug himself into a hole with his remarks, but the fact he was digging in the first place to dodge the issue of where true blame lied.

Well he doesn't need to give an explaination, he wasn't involved.

They were discussing whether race or class was a factor and he said he doesn't think so. He then went on a tangent about the stay policy and that he would have expected people to have left anyway.

That was it.

The only reason this is a headline is because it's election season.

32UK General Election 2019 - Page 2 Empty Re: UK General Election 2019 7th November 2019, 5:08 pm

Tanmann

Tanmann
Dick Tater

TiberiusDidNothingWrong wrote:Well he doesn't need to give an explaination, he wasn't involved.

They were discussing whether race or class was a factor and he said he doesn't think so. He then went on a tangent about the stay policy and that he would have expected people to have left anyway.

That was it.

Well as a representative of the government, he has to be seen to take some responsibility or give some kind of satisfying answers for what happened. Even if it wasn't down to him personally, he still represents his party.

And sure, you could probably go back and dig up evidence of Labour's neglect and apathy toward that long forewarned accident waiting to happen, back when they were in power and say it was a bi-partisan responsibility. But the Tories not only didn't take the chance to do anything corrective, but they compounded the risks by allowing for the cheap flammable cladding.

The questions of racism or classism, yes you could say they offered only a yes or no answer. But what it was ultimately getting at is why didn't anyone with the power to do so, even care to prevent this catastrophe for years? Some can only conclude it was down to some kind of contempt that thought the victims were less deserving of basic health and safety rights.

And in that sense, it's really no good him talking purely about what should've been done differently on the day it happened. And consequently his tangent seems like a dodge.

33UK General Election 2019 - Page 2 Empty Re: UK General Election 2019 7th November 2019, 5:26 pm

TiberiusDidNothingWrong

TiberiusDidNothingWrong
Dick Tater

It's a dodge to the extent that there isn't really much else to say and he probably wants to change topic.

What he said is basically irrelevant. We can talk about some idealistic standard of hyper-aware responsibility that politicians are supposed to have with regard to their parties, but I would reiterate that the only reason we are talking about this at all is because the opposition wants to persuade that this is important. It isn't.

You could sit and listen to every word every politician says and pick them up on it. If you're maintaining this level of sensitivity, you'd probably end up dismissing every politician on earth as 'irresponsible'. In fact, that's exactly what the opposition and their media does in the wake of an election - only I doubt it's out of idealism but political pragmatism.

This is not important and the only reason you (plural, the public) believe it is is because it's what the respective media have told you. But both sides do it, it only varies as to which papers you read which side's immorality or incompetence you're convinced of.

34UK General Election 2019 - Page 2 Empty Re: UK General Election 2019 7th November 2019, 6:14 pm

Tanmann

Tanmann
Dick Tater

Well, I think it's worth stressing that it wouldn't and shouldn't have even taken an unrealistically idealistic hyper-awareness on the part of government to prevent Grenfell. There had been many pleas and appeals over the years to fix the problems with the towers. People had been shouting from the rooftops to try and make the council and government aware.

Their concerns only needed to be taken seriously once.

But I will concede that maybe Rees-Mogg himself wasn't in a position to personally effect it and so maybe it's wrong to make him the fall-guy for that at least just because he maybe gave a bad answer.

On the one hand I agree that a lot of furious hay often gets made in quite vindictive fashion out of a politician's errs or poor choice of words. But I do think Grenfell is a special case where a lot of people feel they've been denied any of the right answers and statements from the government on the issue, and as such are more likely to lose patience and see no reason to see anything charitably anymore in what is said on the matter.

There's deeper reasons people want their pint of blood over it now, is what I'm saying.

To be honest I've actually recently been reading Why We Get The Wrong Politicians by Isabel Hardmann, which has gotten me to consider more the human element in the parliamentary machine and how ostensibly good MP's, who can be as sensitive as us all, can end up reaping the blame for policies that were out of their control (and indeed how easy it is to get locked out of a chance to amend a bad policy or not have the chance to properly read and consider it). It is something a lot more people should understand. But it also reinforced for me that the current system and government isn't working, and needs a clean slate.

35UK General Election 2019 - Page 2 Empty Re: UK General Election 2019 8th November 2019, 10:26 pm

Ludders

Ludders

Cunnus Maximus wrote:
Tanmann wrote:I don't want any part in that victory. I still don't think Corbyn can be trusted an inch with our national security regarding terrorist prevention (because I don't think he can bring himself to see white westerners as victims).

LOL If he was such a security risk he wouldn't be on the privy council.

None of the recently exhumed and recycled accusations hold any weight at all and are just politicking from Tory ex-members of the security services.

The rest of what you said and its conflation with the Swedish socialists is a hot mess of regurgitated PJW-type crap and Tory rag red-baiting.

Corbyn is only defined as 'hard left' because the establishment can't bear the thought of neoliberalism and gross top-down inequality being challenged. You should read Chris Mullin's excellent book, A Very British Coup, which is as pertinent now as it ever was.

Corbyn is only radical in the sense that he believes in bi-lateral dialogue, is anti-MIC, and wants to people - yes including white people Rolling Eyes  - to be able to have a home and a job without having to struggle, while the establishment want to retain a model that squeezes workers' labour costs, rights and benefits for the advantage of shareholders and other arsehole leeches in our society.

I have to agree with Cunnus here.
There is a 'looney'/liberal/SJW fringe to modern leftism, particularly at the younger end of the spectrum. But the response to it is often equally hysterical handwringing from the populist right, especially in that particular bubble of 'professional' Youtubers and their followers.
Yes there is the cult of Corbynism where he can do no wrong, but there are also many genuine left-wingers that don't fit into that category who are kind of stuck with him, for better or for worse at the moment.
Why? The predicament is basically that however divisive Corbyn is, any replacement that is picked would likely be seen to need to be 'different' from him, and probably *completely* different too, which would likely mean not left-wing.
It would likely mean getting someone much more centrist or from the right of Labour to lead the party; ie: a Blairite.  And there's already have enough (so called) centrists to vote for, so the last thing you need another centrist party. We need a valid left-wing party to give people actual choice; something that's been unavailable as an option essentially since Thatcher. We need wider representation, and for the electorate to feel like they can choose someone who does represent their views meaningfully.
Without real choice, you get political disillusionment and apathy. You get frustration with politics, and anger and protest votes. You end up with moderates supporting populist fringe parties out of desperation, and inadvertently elevating previous sidelined and dangerous narratives to the mainstream through that support (though the parties come and go, as did the  National Front, the BNP, UKIP and now TBP, the process is the same: those who feel 'left out' vote for populists and charlatans. Typically, these fringe characters are at the fringes for a reason.
Then you end up with claims of political elitism and lack of representation, which leads to claims of conspiracy and the assumption that politicians are collectively in cohorts; or parts of close-knit and exclusive circles and revolving doors.
You end up with charges that, "nothing changes" and, "the political class will never allow that", and, "politicians are frustrating the will of the people". And  you end up with things like Brexit, Corbyn, and Trump.
But in  nutshell, that's also why many left-wingers defend Corbyn, despite not necessarily agreeing with his stance on many things . They don't want to lose what they have been unable to vote for for quite literally decades: a left-wing economic policy with a meaningful chance of implementation in a FPTP voting system.
That in a nutshell is why I'm voting Labour. For entirely these reasons.

36UK General Election 2019 - Page 2 Empty Re: UK General Election 2019 22nd November 2019, 7:22 pm

Pepsi Maxil

Pepsi Maxil
The Grand Master

I've decided to vote for the Conservative Party.

37UK General Election 2019 - Page 2 Empty Re: UK General Election 2019 22nd November 2019, 9:47 pm

TiberiusDidNothingWrong

TiberiusDidNothingWrong
Dick Tater

Good lad

38UK General Election 2019 - Page 2 Empty Re: UK General Election 2019 22nd November 2019, 10:57 pm

Boofer

Boofer

Lol, did neither of you see Johnson's risible
performance tonight?

Skewered. Every Tory lie of the last 10 years exposed, plus the sort of personal shellacking one might expect at a comedy roast.

No doubt the vacillating shite will win, but you can't tell me this guy is prime political beef. The man's a dollar steak at best.

39UK General Election 2019 - Page 2 Empty Re: UK General Election 2019 22nd November 2019, 11:15 pm

Pepsi Maxil

Pepsi Maxil
The Grand Master

He's a good man, I like him a lot.

40UK General Election 2019 - Page 2 Empty Re: UK General Election 2019 22nd November 2019, 11:25 pm

ClockworkOcean

avatar
Dick Tater

He's a man who accepts bribes from sociopathically greedy billionaires to enact policies he knows are leading to the preventable deaths of innocent people. He is anything but a good man.

41UK General Election 2019 - Page 2 Empty Re: UK General Election 2019 22nd November 2019, 11:27 pm

Pepsi Maxil

Pepsi Maxil
The Grand Master

Corbyn is a terrorist sympathiser. The country is in better hands with Johnson.

42UK General Election 2019 - Page 2 Empty Re: UK General Election 2019 22nd November 2019, 11:34 pm

TiberiusDidNothingWrong

TiberiusDidNothingWrong
Dick Tater

I did see it. He could have held his ground better, especially against the 5 IQ questions such as, 'racist rhetoric is really bad today, can you admit that you were a cause of it and apologise please?'.

Tory lies exposed? I mean, they make optimistic predictions to win voters over, as everyone does, and sometimes they can't meet up to their 'promises', because the circumstances aren't always so predictable.

Still, it's pointless to judge Boris's party by what 'the Tories' have done before, the leadership is the only meaningfully defining trait of any political party.

Boris will try to commit to their 'promises' at least as much as Corbyn, or any other party leader will ... for the sake of re-election if nothing else.

The major benefit being that the Tory promises are grounded in reality - pragmatism over idealism - and the major premise is to break out of the Brexit limbo that would otherwise be retained, likely for the next few years: uncertainty and all that havoc.

43UK General Election 2019 - Page 2 Empty Re: UK General Election 2019 22nd November 2019, 11:42 pm

TiberiusDidNothingWrong

TiberiusDidNothingWrong
Dick Tater

ClockworkOcean wrote:He's a man who accepts bribes from sociopathically greedy billionaires to enact policies he knows are leading to the preventable deaths of innocent people. He is anything but a good man.

I hate the 'blood money' psychology. It's basically a spiritual belief. What harm can possibly be done by accepting money from 'bad' people (to their deficit) to do good? It makes zero sense.

Politics costs money. It costs money running for election and far more so running a state. If the state could acquire money at no expense of the taxpayer: ideal.

Billionaires have money, a lot of it. If you're going to accept money from any person a billionaire is likely going to be a good source.

Whether these people you are referring to are actually 'bad' or not is another discussion, but it's of no consequence. You aren't supporting them by taking their money.

If you would consider him a 'bad man' for simply accepting money from 'questionable' sources you may as well condemn all but the most naive politician, businessman and alike.

44UK General Election 2019 - Page 2 Empty Re: UK General Election 2019 23rd November 2019, 3:41 am

ClockworkOcean

avatar
Dick Tater

TiberiusDidNothingWrong wrote:I hate the 'blood money' psychology. It's basically a spiritual belief. What harm can possibly be done by accepting money from 'bad' people (to their deficit) to do good? It makes zero sense.

Politics costs money. It costs money running for election and far more so running a state. If the state could acquire money at no expense of the taxpayer: ideal.

Billionaires have money, a lot of it. If you're going to accept money from any person a billionaire is likely going to be a good source.

Whether these people you are referring to are actually 'bad' or not is another discussion, but it's of no consequence. You aren't supporting them by taking their money.

If you would consider him a 'bad man' for simply accepting money from 'questionable' sources you may as well condemn all but the most naive politician, businessman and alike.

The notion of "blood money" is neither here nor there. As I stated very clearly, the issue is bribery; elected officials intentionally harming their constituents in order to serve the interests of their extremely wealthy donors, many of whom also happen to own media empires large and influential enough to topple governments should they become displeased.

45UK General Election 2019 - Page 2 Empty Re: UK General Election 2019 23rd November 2019, 7:31 am

Ludders

Ludders

The Tories campaign is basically: "We're gonna change loads of shit that we've had the power to change over the last nine years, but didn't."
My favourite has to be Patel, who's basically saying: "It's not our fault that local councils couldn't manage without all the funding we cut from their budgets".

And people are gonna vote for these cunts coz muh commie Corbyn.
Britain has had social programmes since 1945. We've all lived with this "Communism" and benefited from it all our lives. But the same media who labelled Milliband 'Red Ed' because he was a midget gnat's bollock to the left of the neoliblab Blair and Brown, has sold the idea of a return to more of a Keynesian economic model as "Communism". And all the dumb cunts fall for it.
I only wish that it was only Tory voters who suffered under Tory (and Lib Dems) austerity, and not the rest of the population who had it forced on them.

46UK General Election 2019 - Page 2 Empty Re: UK General Election 2019 23rd November 2019, 8:52 am

Ludders

Ludders

47UK General Election 2019 - Page 2 Empty Re: UK General Election 2019 23rd November 2019, 9:24 am

Pepsi Maxil

Pepsi Maxil
The Grand Master

Will you noisy fuckers shut up? I wanted to have a lie-in this morning!

48UK General Election 2019 - Page 2 Empty Re: UK General Election 2019 23rd November 2019, 12:33 pm

TiberiusDidNothingWrong

TiberiusDidNothingWrong
Dick Tater

ClockworkOcean wrote:

The notion of "blood money" is neither here nor there. As I stated very clearly, the issue is bribery; elected officials intentionally harming their constituents in order to serve the interests of their extremely wealthy donors, many of whom also happen to own media empires large and influential enough to topple governments should they become displeased.

Source? Unless they are only allegations of obvious purpose and origin.



Last edited by TiberiusDidNothingWrong on 23rd November 2019, 12:45 pm; edited 1 time in total

49UK General Election 2019 - Page 2 Empty Re: UK General Election 2019 23rd November 2019, 12:44 pm

TiberiusDidNothingWrong

TiberiusDidNothingWrong
Dick Tater

Ronnie wrote:The Tories campaign is basically: "We're gonna change loads of shit that we've had the power to change over the last nine years, but didn't."
My favourite has to be Patel, who's basically saying: "It's not our fault that local councils couldn't manage without all the funding we cut from their budgets".

And people are gonna vote for these cunts coz muh commie Corbyn.
Britain has had social programmes since 1945. We've all lived with this "Communism" and benefited from it all our lives. But the same media who labelled Milliband 'Red Ed' because he was a midget gnat's bollock to the left of the neoliblab Blair and Brown, has sold the idea of a return to more of a Keynesian economic model as "Communism". And all the dumb cunts fall for it.
I only wish that it was only Tory voters who suffered under Tory (and Lib Dems) austerity, and not the rest of the population who had it forced on them.

It's not a question of 'they', again, any party is very different in a different time frame under a different leadership. What May or Cameron did or did not do has no bearing on what Boris will or will not do.

Also again, some 'promises' prove impractical beyond initial predictions. The only party that would keep to all their 'promises' would be one that only 'promised' what it was certain it could achieve ... which, in the real of governing and politics and economics is very little.
Such a party wouldn't get elected.

That said, do you really think that Labour is actually going to be able to achieve even a majority of what they suppose? They are running on complete fiction, the Tories here are being far more earthly.

On the later point, communism is not socialism. Sure, people are misusing the former term regardless, but the criticism revolves around Corbyn's manifesto of taking from the rich ... and middle classes so much as he may be hesitant to admit ... to give to the poor. Only this may sound great to the lower classes, it has been proven impractical and otherwise downright dysfunctional at every instance - the main motivational factor being not a concern for the lower classes but a hatred of the wealthier classes.

50UK General Election 2019 - Page 2 Empty Re: UK General Election 2019 23rd November 2019, 6:37 pm

Ludders

Ludders

Hatred of the rich is just a load of old Daily Telegraph bollocks. It’s about seeing the bigger picture and regulating an economic system that currently sees all the wealth going up instead of trickling down like we’re told it does.
I’m voting social liberalism over economic liberalism. The Keynesian economic model which operated from 1945 was formulated as a response to the great depression to be a more regulated economic model. However, since the dawn of the neoliberal age which came up with Thatcher and Reagan, the deregulated 'purer' free market models of Hayek and Friedman are now dominant. And that is essentially why I am voting Labour. Because they’re the only party interested in changing the current neoliberal economic model, and putting social liberalism before economic liberalism.

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