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Season 17: Too Silly?

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Kaijuko
Tanmann
iank
Bernard Marx
Ludders
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1Season 17: Too Silly? Empty Season 17: Too Silly? 2nd November 2019, 7:43 pm

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Season 17 is seen by fandom as either being the original series last bit of whimsy and fun or a childish campy mess that ruined the show which was then fixed by the seriousness of 18. But what is your stance on it?

My ratings

Destiny Of The Daleks: 2.5/5
City Of Death: 5/5
Creature From The Pit: 3.5/5
Nightmare Of Eden: 3/5
The Horns Of Nimon: 4/5
Shada: 4.5/5



Last edited by Indrid Mercury on 19th January 2020, 8:56 pm; edited 3 times in total

2Season 17: Too Silly? Empty Re: Season 17: Too Silly? 2nd November 2019, 8:31 pm

Ludders

Ludders

The description of S17 is spot on, but S18 was rather boring on the whole.

3Season 17: Too Silly? Empty Re: Season 17: Too Silly? 2nd November 2019, 8:39 pm

Bernard Marx

Bernard Marx

I admit that I’m not as fond of it as I used to be, though I still consider it to be incredibly underrated. There’s a certain tonal confusion to stories like Nightmare of Eden which drags it down considerably- it’s a potentially very dark story concerning the after-effects of drug smuggling, yet is played in a decidedly parodic fashion which undermines the script when presented to screen. I can also understand the frustration of fans desiring a more serious rendition of Who, as the season does come across as a piss take much of the time, and I don’t know if I’d like it as much if I’d been around to watch it on transmission.

However, with that out of the way, I’d consider it an unfairly maligned season which primarily receives criticism due to the playfully silly tone as opposed to the stories themselves, which are generally acceptable and occasionally superb. Destiny of the Daleks is OK- it’s nowhere near as bad as many say, even if Davros is very poorly realised. City of Death is brilliant, with an imaginative narrative that remains air-tight amidst the time travel elements, coupled with some truly lovely dialogue, performances, location shooting and incidental score (possible Simpson’s best work). Creature from the Pit is largely reviled, though I’m not entirely sure why- the creature itself is certainly a joke, but I’ve always seen that as intentional. I’ve always seen the sillier aspects of the season to have a sense of playful self-awareness about them, without veering into pure anti-intellectualism. It’s got a brilliant jungle set too. It’s not great, but hardly insulting. I’ve already discussed Eden, and it’s the weakest of the season due to the reasons outlined above and exemplifies an occasional problem with the season and era concerning its tonal inconsistencies. Nimon is somewhat similar, and could objectively be assessed as an embarrassing mess, though it’s always cheered me up when required personally. I love Shada myself- it’s very much an amalgamation of the best elements of City of Death with a more epic scope applied to proceedings.

I think it’s a season I would think of differently had I watched it at the time of broadcast, and might have not taken to it at all if I had. Much of it is farcical by design, and is so starkly different to Tom’s earlier years, and could have easily turned away long term fans. Although as it stands right now, and given how much I liked it as a kid when being introduced to the original series, I still really enjoy it, and don’t consider it to be anywhere near as bad as many. It’s highs are also tremendously high, and amongst my all time favourite stories.

4Season 17: Too Silly? Empty Re: Season 17: Too Silly? 2nd November 2019, 8:41 pm

iank

iank

In my top 3 or 4 fave seasons (along with 14, 25 and 26). Glorious fun.
Hope it's on Blu ray soon. The City DVD in particular looks a bit grotty now.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKNC69I8Mq_pJfvBireybsg

5Season 17: Too Silly? Empty Re: Season 17: Too Silly? 3rd November 2019, 1:42 pm

Tanmann

Tanmann
Dick Tater

In isolation most of Season 17's stories are probably just an entertaining bit of fun.

Collectively though, and in context, they do seem to suggest that the imagination, fun and whimsy of Season 16 was seriously beginning to grow tired and run dry.

Destiny of the Daleks starts pretty solidly but seems to go a bit south the moment Davros wakes up.

City of Death is excellent, with tremendous intrigue and staying power, like a magical date we can't forget years on.

Creature From The Pit is where things start to get rather silly and trite, and perhaps offer the first hints that the show is becoming too much about redoing the same old cliches. Nonetheless with the exception of Erato, it is a more professional production than much of the rest of the season.

Nightmare of Eden is a bit of a queasy, infuriating ride really that seems to leave professionalism at the door. At this point the Tom Baker humour begins to feel on the tasteless side, given the surrounding deaths and grim subject matter. Nonetheless, Tom's final trapping of the villains is ingenious in ways that the following decade's Ainley Master stories frequently cry out for.

Horns of Nimon I actually quite enjoy, though I do suspect it's only Lalla Ward who's giving a shit anymore, and that it's a better story when Tom and K9 are absent. I even think the Nimon are effectively nasty villains. Unfortunately after the previous two stories, this can't help but feel a bit samey and like the season's become something of an indistinct blur now, lacking the variety and sense of adventure of seasons before, or like the same overlong sketch show gag that doesn't know when to end.

A part of me thinks it was as good as it could've been, in the circumstances, but in the end I think the season was a mark of a show in a spiralling descent.

6Season 17: Too Silly? Empty Re: Season 17: Too Silly? 9th November 2019, 9:56 am

Kaijuko

Kaijuko

I can understand people finding this season too light-weight and silly in places but personally, I love it. Tom and Lalla are my favourite Doctor/companion pairing, while City of Death and Shada, in particular, are funny, clever and full of mad sci-fi ideas.  For me, the weakest story is Destiny of The Daleks, but that is still entertaining enough, even if parts of it don't make much sense (Daleks are robots?).

7Season 17: Too Silly? Empty Re: Season 17: Too Silly? 18th February 2020, 6:00 pm

Pepsi Maxil

Pepsi Maxil
The Grand Master

Destiny of the Daleks 8/10
City of Death 10/10
The Creature from the Pit 8/10
Nightmare of Eden 8/10
The Horns of Nimon 8.5/10
Shada 9/10

The Baker/Ward pairing is irresistible.

8Season 17: Too Silly? Empty Re: Season 17: Too Silly? 18th February 2020, 7:07 pm

Fendelman

Fendelman

Destiny of the Daleks 8.5/10
City of Death 10/10
The Creature from the Pit 9/10
Nightmare of Eden 7.5/10
The Horns of Nimon 9/10
Shada 10/10

9Season 17: Too Silly? Empty Re: Season 17: Too Silly? 19th February 2020, 1:19 am

Rob Filth

Rob Filth

Season 17 is just McCoys Season 24 with slightly better acting and plots.

http://www.thefuckingobvious.com

10Season 17: Too Silly? Empty Re: Season 17: Too Silly? 23rd February 2020, 1:17 am

The Brigade Leader

The Brigade Leader

I've always felt that Seasons 17 & 18 were two extremes.

Season 17 IS too comedic.
Tom was out of control, Williams had no control and Adams was just taking the piss.

Season 18 IS too dour.
An understandable reaction by JNT,Bidmead and Letts to reign in the humour resulted in a season that took itself too seriously and as a result at times could feel pompous and dry.

Obviously the best Doctor Who is a compromise.

Sarah Jane Smith : "You're serious, aren't you?"
The Doctor : "About what I do, yes. Not necessarily about the way I do it."

The perfect season of Doctor Who should have both City Of Death and State Of Decay in it.



11Season 17: Too Silly? Empty Re: Season 17: Too Silly? 25th February 2020, 7:03 am

Ludders

Ludders

The Brigade Leader wrote:I've always felt that Seasons 17 & 18 were two extremes.

Season 17 IS too comedic.
Tom was out of control, Williams had no control and Adams was just taking the piss.

Season 18 IS too dour.
An  understandable reaction by JNT,Bidmead and Letts to reign in the humour resulted in a season that took itself too seriously and as a result  at times could feel pompous and dry.

Good way of looking at it.
On paper, 18 should walk it by my tastes, but on screen it ended being rather dull. Not all of it obviously, but Logopolis for example is excruciatingly tedious. Even Tom seems utterly bored with the whole thing.

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