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Colin Baker era opinions?

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51Colin Baker era opinions? - Page 3 Empty Re: Colin Baker era opinions? on Tue 21 May 2019, 5:57 am

Rob Filth

Rob Filth
@stengos wrote: but the introduction of Mel was virtually the last straw for me.
You mean the non-introduction of Mel considering that she just appears in the TARDIS without any introduction!

"Trial" really fucked up the continuative flow of the series for these very type of reasons, and then to fuck up the continuative flow even worse than a shoehorned companion without any good narrative reason we then had a shoe-horned Doctor immediately afterwards thanks to that utter plank Grade.

I know some people like McCoy, but the series had already been terminally wounded during Season 23.

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52Colin Baker era opinions? - Page 3 Empty Re: Colin Baker era opinions? on Tue 21 May 2019, 8:46 am

stengos

stengos
@Rob Filth wrote:
@stengos wrote: but the introduction of Mel was virtually the last straw for me.
You mean the non-introduction of Mel considering that she just appears in the TARDIS without any introduction!

"Trial" really fucked up the continuative flow of the series for these very type of reasons, and then to fuck up the continuative flow even worse than a shoehorned companion without any good narrative reason we then had a shoe-horned Doctor immediately afterwards thanks to that utter plank Grade.

I know some people like McCoy, but the series had already been terminally wounded during Season 23.

I agree. Both those things did jar in very obvious ways. But i don't think that damage was terminal in itself. The show could have recovered if the right decision were taken during what followed. Unfortunately subsequent decisions for season 24 (e.g., casting, general production style) made the situation worse. I appreciate that after 14 year of New Who those things may not look so bad, but at the time the show was sitting quite comfortably and snugly in its nadir and seemed most reluctant to move out.

53Colin Baker era opinions? - Page 3 Empty Re: Colin Baker era opinions? on Mon 02 Sep 2019, 8:26 am

Bernard Marx


Here are my thoughts on Colin’s era:
The Twin Dilemma is shit, though I thought Season 22 was generally excellent, unlike so many fans out there. Attack Of The Cybermen is the most underrated Cybermen story and in my top 3 (with only Tomb and Invasion really competing with it). Vengeance on Varos, as acknowledged by Rob, has some crap and staid direction but also a superbly astute and acidic script. Mark of the Rani isn’t as bad as many say either (it’s the best outing from Pip and Jane and features a great guest cast and period atmosphere- the opening shots and opening music piece are particular favourites of mine). The Two Doctors is a wonderfully acidic and hilarious script from Robert Holmes, and I love the character of Shockeye immensely, whilst Troughton’s presence (possibly my favourite Doctor) only livens up proceedings- it has a superb guest cast as well. Its only major flaws are the possibly overlong length of the story, some staid direction as well as the rather crap Sontarans (though the scene where Styke is blown up with his dismembered leg being subsequently carried by Shockeye is fucking hysterical, and brilliantly understated). Timelash is by far the worst of the season, and is objectively rubbish, though upon a recent re-watch, I don’t think it’s as offensively bad as I’ve made out in my worst story lists- it’s unintentionally hilarious at the best of times, which puts it above other crap stories. Revelation of the Daleks is in my top 20 stories of all time, and one of the absolute best of the decade.

There was a certain acidic quality to season 22 which reminded me of Holmes’ older scripts, specifically The Talons Of Weng-Chiang, especially in how it combined humour and horror without feeling totally discombobulated. This is something that was missing from the often incredibly dour Davison era, and it’s a massive shame that season 23 largely throws this out of the window. It’s been stated many times on this forum, but Season 23 is a decline from 22 in every conceivable way. The overarching narrative is plain confused by the end, the sets and direction are cheaper and more garish than ever before, and the humour has been considerably watered down into a more child-friendly version without any of the genuine wit of season 22. One could argue that the Williams era had a similar form of humour, but it was considerably more literary and witty than it is in 23. The Trial segments themselves are very variable- The Mysterious Planet is exceptionally generic and flat for a Holmes script, Mindwarp is a fucking narrative and tonal mess from start to finish that doesn’t work in any way (though I probably personally enjoy it more than others here- I like Hartley’s score and Colin’s performance when reacting to Peri’s Death) and Vervoids is tacky as all hell in terms of production (though isn’t as bad as some in terms of scripting). Ultimate Foe has a rather good first episode that towers over the rest of the season, but the final episode is an utter mess (if mildly entertaining for the first 20 minutes) and effectively causes the entire story arc to collapse and fall.

It’s clear as to how Season 23 collapsed (mainly due to bad communication and Grade pulling the strings from behind the scenes), and Colin was treated horrendously by the BBC. Frankly, although his era was laden with problems, I’ve no idea why he’s so often regarded as the worst Doctor. Though the costume exaggerated the character’s eccentricities a little too much, I thought his portrayal of the character was great, especially in his first year, and even though he is considerably watered down in 23 and doesn’t have anywhere near the screen presence due to his comparatively crap characterisation, there are times where his performance still shines. I’m glad he’s seen in a more positive light by some fans thanks to BF, but I think there are quite a few gems in season 22 that people tend to ignore.

54Colin Baker era opinions? - Page 3 Empty Re: Colin Baker era opinions? on Mon 02 Sep 2019, 8:35 am

Pepsi Maxil

Pepsi Maxil
Chief Caretaker
I don't like this era nearly as much as I used to. Same with some of the Davison stuff.

55Colin Baker era opinions? - Page 3 Empty Re: Colin Baker era opinions? on Mon 02 Sep 2019, 8:37 am

Ronnie

Ronnie
I think I've mentioned this elsewhere, but in short; I like Colin's Doctor, but I think he had many of the worst stories in the entire 26yr run.
For me, I rate Revelation, and Attack of the Cyberman, and I find Terror of the Vervoids and The Ultimate Foe reasonable, but other than that I don't really care if I never see any of the others again.
If anything, his early Big Finish audios are far preferable to the bulk of his TV output.

56Colin Baker era opinions? - Page 3 Empty Re: Colin Baker era opinions? on Mon 02 Sep 2019, 8:40 am

Bernard Marx


@Ronnie wrote:I think I've mentioned this elsewhere, but in short; I like Colin's Doctor, but I think he had many of the worst stories in the entire 26yr run.
For me, I rate Revelation, and Attack of the Cyberman, and I find Terror of the Vervoids and The Ultimate Foe reasonable, but other than that I don't really care if I never see any of the others again.
If anything, his early Big Finish audios are far preferable to the bulk of his TV output.
I agree about his early BF audios, especially in the case of The Holy Terror, which I rate higher than everything in his TV era (including Revelation, not than I’m knocking it- I still think it’s superb). Though BF’s later outputs have been awful.

57Colin Baker era opinions? - Page 3 Empty Re: Colin Baker era opinions? on Mon 02 Sep 2019, 9:13 am

iank

iank
As I've said before, love 22, can't stand 23.

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