Do you think people have been too hard on Jodie?

Not a troll post honest.

Jodie is not good in the role of the Doctor, and I can see why her behaviour towards her critics would rankle some people. However ultimately I can't see any actress or actor behaving differently in that situation.

In order to have a careers you have to swallow and promote all of the usual SJW bullshit. Look at Mark Hamill. Great actor, great guy, but dear god does he virtue signal on twitter.

You can see how a young actress might think the first female Doctor would be a good opportunity. If they know nothing about the show, then to them it is as genderless role, as that's how its being promoted in the media. So from their point of view why not? Its not wrong to know nothing about it, but still go up for it. Most of the classic era actors weren't fans.

Again don't think this means I'm saying her performance is good. I just think that people shouldn't really pin ALL of the blame on her which I'm seeing happen a lot. IMO its Moffat, Chibbers, the celebrity "fans" and the larger SJW culture that are to blame for the death of DW. Jodie is almost incidental. IMO an actress would always have jarred after 13 men, and no actress could have salvaged season 11.

I fear that in say ten years the blame will ALL be pinned on Jodie. The attitude will be "it would have worked with a different actress" in which case we'll be right back at square one again, not just with DW, but in general.

I think I have been too hard OVER Jodie in the past. Rock solid erections can sometimes be uncomfortable if you're wearing jeans.

Commander Maxil wrote:I think I have been too hard OVER Jodie in the past. Rock solid erections can sometimes be uncomfortable if you're wearing jeans.

Only on the Hive do you get posts like this. I think you've outdone Boofer with some of your posts.

I guess Jodie can chain herself to your railings and smash your patriarchy anytime she wants.

burrunjor wrote:

Commander Maxil wrote:I think I have been too hard OVER Jodie in the past. Rock solid erections can sometimes be uncomfortable if you're wearing jeans.

Only on the Hive do you get posts like this. I think you've outdone Boofer with some of your posts.

I guess Jodie can chain herself to your railings and smash your patriarchy anytime she wants.

I'd let her use her sonic screwdriver as a strap-on to penetrate my tight little hole, mate.

Taylor Swift apparently got mauled by twitter feminists for saying she wasn't a feminist herself, so I can certainly believe the pressure has been on Jodie to parrot their ideological drivel just because she's female and famous and can't be seen to betray 'the sisterhood'.

Also I think she might not be a good casting choice for the Doctor, but frankly I think she's been given terrible advice for how to play the Doctor, and apparently been actively discouraged by the BBC and Chibnall from rewatching the old episodes for character research. She's played a bad Tennant impression because that's what the BBC want.

So yes, I do think Jodie deserves some slack.

But the problem of course is that, as with JNT, RTD and Moffat, the obnoxious zealotry of her sycophants can have you hating her as a figure a lot more than you would've otherwise.

No, not really. You sell out, you get what you deserve.

Tanmann wrote:Taylor Swift apparently got mauled by twitter feminists for saying she wasn't a feminist herself, so I can certainly believe the pressure has been on Jodie to parrot their ideological drivel just because she's female and famous and can't be seen to betray 'the sisterhood'.

Also I think she might not be a good casting choice for the Doctor, but frankly I think she's been given terrible advice for how to play the Doctor, and apparently been actively discouraged by the BBC and Chibnall from rewatching the old episodes for character research. She's played a bad Tennant impression because that's what the BBC want.

So yes, I do think Jodie deserves some slack.

But the problem of course is that, as with JNT, RTD and Moffat, the obnoxious zealotry of her sycophants can have you hating her as a figure a lot more than you would've otherwise.

Yes I forgot about that with Taylor Swift. It was pretty much the same thing that happened to Moffat.

I don't think Jodie was bullied as much as they were. Moffat clearly hated the SJWs at first, but had to tow the party line.

Jodie I think is a more willing participant, but in terms of who is to blame she is a miniscule cog in a very big machine.

Prior to 2017 I never once fantasized about shoving my throbbing hard cock smeared with cream deep in the Doctor's butthole.

While I accept that the majority of Series 11's problems were down to Chibnall and his lack of talent/ability, his poor decisions, the pool of mediocre writers, the BBC's desperate desire to return the programme to Tennant-levels of popularity and the current strain of SJW madness that has infected modern culture, Whittaker has to take a significant portion of the blame as well.  Simply put, she cannot act - I've seen her in numerous roles and none of them impressed me, no part she played particularly stood out and nowhere is this more obvious than in Doctor Who, where she seems like a guest in her own show- the blandest of Doctors.  She has no presence, no authority, no command of the proceedings and clearly, Whittaker has no grasp or understanding of the character.  A good actor can sometimes make the shittiest script and the clunkiest of dialogue seem appealing, or at least believable, but Whittaker lacks that ability. Add to this, her dismissive (and frankly ridiculous) comments about 'the white male gaze' and it's pretty obvious that she isn't there to be the Doctor - JW was cast to make a big, bold, politically correct BBC statement about identity politics and she went along with it.

burrunjor wrote:Do you think people have been too hard on Jodie?

Only those who blame her alone for the show's downfall without acknowledging Chibnall's role, assuming they even know who he is. If someone still hasn't grasped the division of labour between actors, writers and producers by this point, then they're no more worthy of consideration than the thickos who blame Colin and Sylvester personally for 80s narrative and production choices they disapprove of. However, on the whole, Whittaker deserves harsh criticism, and lots of it. Aside from being smug, self-centred, arrogant, and insufferably boastful, she simply cannot act. At all. My overwhelming impression of her is that she's an amateurish hack who shouldn't have been allowed anywhere near the profession, let alone a role as iconic as the Doctor.

Only those who blame her alone for the show's downfall without acknowledging Chibnall's role, assuming they even know who he is. If someone still hasn't grasped the division of labour between actors, writers and producers by this point, then they're no more worthy of consideration than the thickos who blame Colin and Sylvester personally for 80s narrative and production choices they disapprove of. However, on the whole, Whittaker deserves harsh criticism, and lots of it. Aside from being smug, self-centred, arrogant, and insufferably boastful, she simply cannot act. At all. My overwhelming impression of her is that she's an amateurish hack who shouldn't have been allowed anywhere near the profession, let alone a role as iconic as the Doctor.

That's a fair assessment of the situation. Only thing I'll say is that I don't think any actress could have done a good job with 13. The way she's made out to be so perfect at everything, the costume, the lame villains she comes across like Pting, the way she actually says "I'm a bit socially awkward me" and the mamby pamby way she's written. (Her going on about giant man eating spiders deserving our respect is seriously like Rimmer without anger in Red Dwarf saying "just because its an armour plated killing machine that salivates unspeakable saliva doesn't make it a bad person.")

How the hell is any actress supposed to give an even credible performance in that? Lucy Lawless as Xena had Callisto to play off of, Sarah Michelle Gellar had a flawed, relatable, yet dynamic character to sink her teeth into. 13 is so poorly conceived I honestly don't think any of my favourite actresses from Lucy Lawless to Dana Delorenzo would have done a better job.

(Incidentally I've never thought that Olivia Coleman was a good choice for a female Doctor. Whilst a female Doctor has always been a bad idea, IMO if you did do it, you'd need an actress with a more eccentric personality, like her male counterparts.)

Although she was terribly miscast and her comments on fandom who were against or unsure about the change was unpleasant, I don't think it justifies going as far as sending her death threats and taking every little thing she does out of context.

You don't blame just one player when a football team gets relegated. Usually the manager gets the blame and then the inevitable sack. Chibnall has generally done more damage than Whittaker has. At least there's a certain warmth to Whittaker in SOME of the interviews I've seen her in which is not the case with Brie Larson. I can't even wank to the latter such is the sheer unpleasantness of her persona.

I feel bad for her, especially after the whole thing with her birthday, the fans critical of her era made a right hash of that

Ian Levine wrote:OH PUH-LEASE!!!

IF ANYTHING WE'RE TOO PHUCKING SOFT ON HER!!

NOW, IF YOU DON'T MIND, I'M GOING OFF TO CATCH UP WITH MY NEW LOVE BABYLON 5!!                      

I've got a videotape copy of Tenth Planet Episode 4 IN MY HANDS!

Are you interested?

burrunjor wrote:That's a fair assessment of the situation. Only thing I'll say is that I don't think any actress could have done a good job with 13. The way she's made out to be so perfect at everything, the costume, the lame villains she comes across like Pting, the way she actually says "I'm a bit socially awkward me" and the mamby pamby way she's written. (Her going on about giant man eating spiders deserving our respect is seriously like Rimmer without anger in Red Dwarf saying "just because its an armour plated killing machine that salivates unspeakable saliva doesn't make it a bad person.")

How the hell is any actress supposed to give an even credible performance in that? Lucy Lawless as Xena had Callisto to play off of, Sarah Michelle Gellar had a flawed, relatable, yet dynamic character to sink her teeth into. 13 is so poorly conceived I honestly don't think any of my favourite actresses from Lucy Lawless to Dana Delorenzo would have done a better job.

(Incidentally I've never thought that Olivia Coleman was a good choice for a female Doctor. Whilst a female Doctor has always been a bad idea, IMO if you did do it, you'd need an actress with a more eccentric personality, like her male counterparts.)

I completely agree that even the best actress in the world couldn't have salvaged the trainwreck of a "character" Chibnall shat out. If it weren't for her bad attitude towards the fanbase and previous eras of the show, and her grotesque public boasting about what a "fucking amazing" job she's done, I might have felt some sympathy for her or given her the benefit of the doubt, but her off-screen behaviour quickly exhausted my goodwill. As you pointed out in another thread, Matt Smith faced a ferocious backlash in 2009 which upset him a great deal privately, but he was enough of a class act to keep quiet and let the quality of his performance speak for itself. The fact that Jodie feels the need to go around sneering "good riddance" at sceptical fans and bigging herself up in interviews tells me that she's fully aware of her own inadequacy but chooses to deal with it by lashing out at her critics.

Group Marshal Mercury wrote:Although she was terribly miscast and her comments on fandom who were against or unsure about the change was unpleasant, I don't think it justifies going as far as sending her death threats and taking every little thing she does out of context.

Of course, it should go without saying that violent threats for any reason are never justifiable, and I would agree that things like bowlestrek's "princess" video and some of the comments beneath it were a step too far. There are enough legitimate things to complain about when it comes to #TeamTARDIS without being excessively spiteful about trivialities. I think it just reflects how much people care about this franchise and how utterly furious they are about its needless destruction.

I will stick my neck out for Jodie's acting ability in that I thought her performance in Broadchurch was very strong. I believed her as a mother haunted by the memories of her lost son.

She just doesn't convince me as the Doctor, I don't believe her to be an alien intellect with 900 years of experiences. She just comes off as a soccer mom.

I would like to see the audition tapes for this last round of Doctor casting.

I want to know just exactly what Chinball saw in her.

If her audition was as thin as her on-screen performance, then we'll know it was a virtue-casting.

Boofer wrote:I would like to see the audition tapes for this last round of Doctor casting.

I want to know just exactly what Chinball saw in her.

If her audition was as thin as her on-screen performance, then we'll know it was a virtue-casting.

She didn't audition though, did she? She played a character in Broadchurch that Chibnall was the showrunner for, so just watch that. That's her audition tape.

Yeah, her acting’s appalling, and bares no resemblance to the original character at all. Chibnall is more worthy to blame for the season itself, but she’s still fucking awful in the role, taking Eccleston and Tennant’s worst excesses and exacerbating them to inconceivable degrees.

I didn’t think much to her in Broadchurch or Black Mirror either. She wasn’t awful (and didn’t gurn her way through every bloody scene), but didn’t have any real screen presence in the slightest.

In my view her performance is poor. She was fine in her supporting role in broadchurch but did nothing in that to suggest she was suitable for a leading role.

I'd give her some leeway because of Chibber's awful scripts but then Capaldi got shit thrown his way from Moffat and he still managed to turn in decent performances a lot of the time.

Her costume is crap. Okay that may not be down to Jodie but then why not? Capaldi had  big influence on his costume - he said as much in a very recent interview at a fan convention in Canada. Did Jodie show one iota of interest when her costume was being designed? If she did then she showed bad judgement. If she didn't -  well she should have done and made good choices when she did.

More generally does she have any understanding of the role and how it developed over the years so she could take an informed stance on how the show and stories should develop during her tenure? So she could critically evaluate the shit chibby was handing to her and maybe challenge it in a constructive way?

If an actor chooses a role then he is always risking his reputation - its a choice he has made and he has to live with that choice. If he has chosen a bad project then his judgement is on the line. He probably can't walk but he works with the production team to improve his predicament, perhaps insisting on script changes when some dialogue is especially poor.  I am not aware of there being any such behind the scene dialogue on chib's show: no rumours anywhere. the impression i have is that Whitty is 100% behind Chibs.

I also don't like the way she plays the role - "muminspacewithherfam". I think she has even referred to her companions as her "fam" in the show. And the anti-gun rhetoric is, to me, just plain stupid and calls forth some crass, stupid dialogue. But she just laps it up and spews it out. Again - yes Chib wrote this rubbish but she had to say it. Did she approach him about it at all and suggest changes? I personally don't think so because ideologically they are probably aligned.

Sorry - not a very coherent or well structured post. She is just one problem with the show among many and i am not blaming her for everything. I would add that she seems a very nice person and when i have seen videos on the tv / youtube she is always very welcoming to fans of the show that she meets. Its actually kinda sweet.

I've finally found a picture of Whittaker that actually makes me want to go hard on Jodie.



If she looked like this while playing the Doctor I might actually start watching again. With the sound off of course.

The Brigade Leader wrote:I've finally found a picture of Whittaker that actually makes me want to go hard on Jodie.



If she looked like this while playing the Doctor I might actually start watching again. With the sound off of course.

She actually looks there like a genuine 'Fancy A Good Time?' Lord.